Narks

Ayleid sewers. 'nuff said.

Whoops, I didn't expect that to happen when I ticked that. Thanks!

Some mod is adding "sleep / shield / (something else, I forgot the name) controller" items to my NPC's. This would be fine, except I can see them. And pick them up. And they are worth 9 million gold. Eww. Is there an easy way to figure out what item the mod belongs to?

Never liked Oblivion vanilla magic. A lot of the spells were garbage (ie. anything that was not invisibility / weakness to magic / weakness to element / drain health 100 / charm 100 for 1 second / anger etc.) I used to use Supreme Magicka. I liked some of the options it gave, such as changing the elemental shields, conjuration changes, healing spells damage undead, etc., but I had some problems with it: 1). A lot of spell magnitudes were a bit strong. 2). A lot of spells had short vanilla-style duration. I saw LAME, which adds some pretty cool stuff, mostly in the form of longer spells, nature summons, cool new spells, and stuff. But I am not sure about the compatibility. Should I risk installing both SM and LAME? I want to have the LAME spells take precedence over SM, but I want the extra stuff added by SM (like multiple conjurations and elemental shields). Or does anyone else have another magic mod that they like? Midas Magic sucks. Please don't suggest that.

Ooh, okay, I didn't know that. Thanks.

So the MreRecord is the superclass of the MreRefr, MreAcre, MreAchr classes. I'm unfamiliar with python syntax, so it's a bit difficult for me to read through it - however, I was given this link: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Mod_File_Format It appears to be an in-depth map of all the data types and classes in the .esp (I wish I had found it earlier) - so I probably won't have to go through bosh.py. If I run into trouble, I may look again through wrye bash files, but I don't think I will need to. Thanks for offering to answer questions - it gives me a lot of confidence that I can go off and do stuff and ask someone if I get stuck. Wrye sounds like a pretty cool guy, but it does sound like he probably would not want to help me (I'm bound to say something idiotic or have a failure to communicate eventually, my knowledge of programming has gaping holes everywhere). I also found out myself that the form id needed to be incremented, to obviously prevent duplicates. There also appeared to be a count of all the form id's in the HEDR object. I'm probably going to go off and study the different data types and classes - more specifically, doors, traps and containers (and maybe those nice welkyn(sp?) stones on the stands). I am probably not going to implement random NPC generation (I can see it getting very messy) - so this generator will be for the dungeon structure only. Thanks very much for replying!

Wow, thanks, that's really helpful. I'll go investigate Wrye Bash. Chances are I will write the actual dungeon generator in Java (because that's the only real language I have any experience in), and then learn just enough Python to handle read / write operations. Where can I find information or updates on CBash? Well, I don't intend to put together static tiles to create a dungeon, I intend to put entire rooms (like the warehouse interior rooms), so it should not look too maze-like. I'm more worried about the dungeon becoming too linear (the algorithm I'm thinking of implementing will probably tend to create a "tree" like dungeon.) UPDATE: Well, looking through Wrye Bash, I believe that it does not have the functionality I desire (editing references in cells) - and even if it does, chances are I won't be able to find said functionality without a lot of tedious searching through the source (or just asking Wrye, but I don't know how to contact him, and even if he would help). So, I opened up an .esp file I made with 3 static objects placed at specific coordinates using a hex editor. I learned that TES4 likes to store coordinates as 32-bit floating point numbers... backwards. From there, I've managed to isolate what I believe is a single reference. So far, all I've managed to do is change the coordinates of objects. I tried to duplicate a reference, but it just crashed TES4CS when I tried to open the esp (although I believe I might have screwed up the duplication itself lol). I'm going to check now if the .esp has some kind of checksum. I also have a suspicion that the cell object has a checksum or a count of how many references a cell should contain. As usual, any information would be welcome! I'll eventually post all my findings when I feel I have enough to be worthwhile. UPDATE: YESYESYESYESYES I managed to successfully duplicate a reference in a cell! TES4CS also threw me a whole bunch of errors, which while bad, also informed me a lot about how the .esp file works. Furthermore, pressing yes to all the errors didn't cause a crash, and when I opened up the interior, I saw my extra reference! brb victory dance Here are the errors; if anyone can recognize them, that would be helpful. UPDATE: I've done a lot more research on the inner workings of the .esp. I'm nearing a point where I am confident that I know enough to create a dungeon filled with static objects (I have not investigated things such as traps, NPC's and doors - still a lot of work to do!). This is the file with all my findings (I had to use <code> tags). ESP files seem to store floats as 32-bit, in hex, backwards. Use this to convert: http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/Decimal.html So, if your number in decimal is 3000, and the hex conversion is 45 3b 80 00, then it's stored as 00 80 3b 45. 44A72000 44 A7 20 00 Coordinates of the reference are stored as XYZ, one after another, as backward 32-bit floats. After this is twelve 00's (00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00). This seems to represent the end of the reference. These values may have some significance (probably boolean flags). Now that we know the end of the reference, we can isolate a single reference! Yay! // ====================================================================================== // Reference Analysis // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E7 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 20 A7 44 00 20 A7 44 00 20 A7 44 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E8 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A C4 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B C5 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I---------I Reference header - in text shows as "REFR". // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I---------I This appears to be the form ID of the reference itself. Backwards, naturally. // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I---------I Not sure what this is, but I saw the same sequence in the CELL and GRUP objects. There are 10 in total - the same number of form IDs in the file. // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I---------I Name header. Shows as "NAME" in text. // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I---------I I think this is the form ID of the object our reference is pointing to. Backwards. // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I---------I This says "DATA" in text. // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I--X-POS--I I--Y-POS--I I--Z-POS--I 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 I--X-POS--I I--Y-POS--I I--Z-POS--I This is where the reference coordinates are stored, in backward 32-bit single float, three of them. // ====================================================================================== 52 45 46 52 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E9 0C 00 01 07 57 00 00 4E 41 4D 45 04 00 B3 45 03 00 44 41 54 41 18 00 00 00 7A 44 00 00 FA 44 00 80 3B 45 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I--X-ROT--I I--Y-ROT--I I--Z-ROT--I 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I--X-ROT--I I--Y-ROT--I I--Z-ROT--I Sample data: DB 0F 49 3F E4 CB 16 40 2D D1 59 40 I--X-ROT--I I--Y-ROT--I I--Z-ROT--I This one seems to be rotational data for the object. Stored as radians, not as degrees. Strange. DB 0F 49 3F = 0.7853981852531433 radians = ~45 degrees // ====================================================================================== // Scaled Reference Objects // ====================================================================================== Looks like modifying the scale of an object creates an "XSCL" object. This appears after the end of the "NAME" object. 58 53 43 4C 04 00 00 00 00 40 I---------I This just says "XSCL" - the header. I am currently unsure how the actual scale is stored (the scale of this object is 2.00). // ====================================================================================== // File Header Analysis // ====================================================================================== Seems to be inside the "HEDR" object. 48 45 44 52 0C 00 00 00 80 3F 09 00 00 00 F7 0C 00 00 I---------I Says HEDR. // ====================================================================================== 48 45 44 52 0C 00 00 00 80 3F 09 00 00 00 F7 0C 00 00 II ?? ?? ?? This looks like the form count. Maybe it uses 4 bytes? Probably does, but need confirmation. // ====================================================================================== // // ====================================================================================== I tried to duplicate a reference, and I got an error while loading: Duplicate form ID (01 00 0C E9) encountered. Then I got this error: SetFormID bashing entry in form ID map at 01 00 0C E9. Form basher: type REFR_ID Bashed form: REFR Form (01 00 0C E9) to STAT form 'ARFloor03' (00 03 45 B3) in Cell 'aaaMyDungeon' (01 00 0C E6). Then this error: Form counts don't match. File = thegame.esp Forms loaded = 10 Forms in file = 9 Do you want to correct the file header? The .esp loaded fine, and I saw my duplicate reference. Awesome. The second time I loaded, I got only the first two errors, not the third one.

I've always been a fan of roguelike games - due to their random dungeon generation. Obviously, a dungeon in TES4 is a whole world more interesting then a roguelike game like Nethack. So, I want to bring the two worlds together. A static random dungeon generator, mostly for modders, to allow for the rapid creation of large, interesting dungeons. I found that a lot of the higher quality dungeons created by users tend to have rather unique designs (such as the Lost dungeons in The Ayleid Steps), but still have basic flaws such as sections not lining up properly, overlapping sections, etc. The purpose of the dungeon generator, would be a source of inspiration - rather then design the dungeon based on an idea, base your idea on the random dungeon layout. It also saves time, and hopefully if this reaches an advanced stage, will be capable of creating far more interesting rooms then often seen in the vanilla dungeons. The basic concept will be that the generator will pick from a library of prebuilt rooms stored in its memory. It will then create a random dungeon layout based on user parameters, and then create the dungeon using an algorithm similar to what you may find in a roguelike game (I already have one in mind). Different libraries are for different dungeon architecture (obviously, like Ayleid [which will be the focus of the generator], Imperial keeps, or whatever) but can also be configured to focus on rooms that fit a certain theme (ie. untouched Ayleid tomb rooms only, focus more on traps, etc). Chances are the only way to do this, will be to figure out how TES4 stores interior data, and write a 3rd party program to replicate it. I have no experience in the TES modding community - hey, someone may already know how, or maybe it's stored as plaintext (I haven't looked yet). Any information about how interior data works would be nice - but I believe that I will have to be the one who analyzes the interior data. According to somebody in the chatbox, someone has already created a random dungeon generator (albeit apparently simple), but he did not know who or what it was called. If anyone has any information, I would be interested in knowing what you know. tl;dr: - does anyone know how TES4 interior data works? - does anyone know if a random dungeon generator already exist? - good idea? y/n yeah, I know it's ambitious, but you gotta start somewhere

What, you expected an autobiography or something? I'm Narks, and I want to learn how to mod. I was referred here by DarkRider. Hello.