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Did Umaril escape Oblivion by taking advantage of the Oblivion Crisis, when the barriers between Oblivion and Nirn were down?

Here's just a thought. I never both finishing the MQ. Too boring at certain points (I'm silly, I know), but after the MQ events in the Temple of the One, has the Oblivion Crisis not ended? And that the KotN can still occur after this ends? Correct me if I'm wrong, which is most likely. :lmao:

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Here's just a thought. I never both finishing the MQ. Too boring at certain points (I'm silly, I know), but after the MQ events in the Temple of the One, has the Oblivion Crisis not ended? And that the KotN can still occur after this ends? Correct me if I'm wrong, which is most likely. :lmao:

After the main quest there are no more Oblivion portals (There might be a mod for that) However Knights and SI can still happen. Since Sheo is The prince of madness .

However I assume SI is after the MQ ends since sheo is seeking the "Champion of Cyrodiil"

As for Knights I am not sure if there is a tie with the Oblivion gates. Since it relates to a fallen knight who was released from Oblivion. I am going on what I learned from SI. See that a prince can open portals (IE the gateway sheo made)

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However I assume SI is after the MQ ends since sheo is seeking the "Champion of Cyrodiil"

Not quite. The Shivering Isles are accessible at any time in the game. Sheo is looking for "A champion" for himself, not of Cyrodiil. He doesn't care if you've whooped Dagon or not. :lmao: His portal is always there.

As for Knights of the Nine, there is more than one plane of Oblivion. Akatosh sealed off Dagon from Nirn but not the other Aedra and Daedra.

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Not quite. The Shivering Isles are accessible at any time in the game. Sheo is looking for "A champion" for himself, not of Cyrodiil. He doesn't care if you've whooped Dagon or not. :lmao: His portal is always there.

As for Knights of the Nine, there is more than one plane of Oblivion. Akatosh sealed off Dagon from Nirn but not the other Aedra and Daedra.

Mmm..curse you wiki and your words...lol

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Okay, here a question or two to run past the lore experts.

First question: What exactly happened in the relationship between Oblivion and Nirn at the banishing of Mehrunes Dagon by Akatosh? I remember reading on some Elder Scrolls lore site that Akatosh had reassembled the barriers between the two realms. How can this be true when Sheogorath opened a permanent portal to his realm on the Niben?

Through a funny misconception you've already have a very important point in your post - "the two realms". The liminal barrier (which is to say the thing that keeps Daedra out of Mundus) was made specifically to keep Dagon out. He's and Akatosh are not really best friends :lmao: . From a purely lore perspective there isn't anything indicating that the barrier between other realms and Mundus became weaker or stronger during the whole game. And why did the barrier became weaker, after White Gold had fallen? Because Dagon began to merge with Mundus, and this merging was undone, and White Gold stood again.

Second question: What exactly happened to Mehrunes Dagon? Like I ellude to above, I'm under the impression that he was banished back to oblivion, similar to how his daedric minions can be banished.
Through the use of the gates Dagon had begun to merge with Mundus (that's why the barriers became weaker regarding him, because he spread parts of him into Mundus). This was undone, and his avatar was cast into the Void.

The thing to keep in mind with the Daedric Princes is that you're only dealing with the avatar of them. The real prince is their realm and their sphere. When you enter the gate at Kvatch and walk through the hellish landscape, then this is Mehrunes Dagon. Well, a little part of him, either way.

Third and last question: When the player is in Oblivion, while a gate is open, he/she can remain in Oblivion. However, once a sigil stone has been seized, they are transported back to the realm of Nirn. In this way, it seems that a player-in-oblivion equivalent to a daedra-in-Nirn. However, we also know that people like Mankar Camoran and his associates, as well as the population of the Shivering Isles, seem to be able to reside there without a gate to Nirn remaining open?

On the one hand, there's a lot of gameplay decisions involved here. On the other hand, see the book "Liminal Bridges". Those gates are anchored in pocket dimensions, in which their stone spread creatia ("central point of creatia"). You take the stone, and the whole pocket dimension collapses. When this happens everything in there is transported to their aligned AE (Love letter, Vhek's teachings), which is Nirn for the player, but Dagon's main realm for Dagon's servants.

You can also see this for the Shivering Isles and Mankar Camoran: As for the Isles, their central point of creatia is never gone. Paradise however cease to exist once their central point (the stone of the tower) is gone, which was Mankar.

Also, I haven't seen any lore evidence that the inhabitants of Nirn can be summoned by Daedra in Oblivion.

Mortals can summon other mortals (-> Doors of Oblivion), mortals can be summoned by Daedra (mentioned several times during Shivering Isles). Though there is a difference: The Daedra you call are usually in the Void, and will do everything to escape the Void. Mortals however are never in the Void, and therefore often choose to ignore the call (-> Doors of Oblivion).

If the people of Nirn can remain in Oblivion without a gate binding them,
Oblivion is more than just Dagon's Deadlands, of which you only see unstable pocket dimensions during the game. Oblivion is a plane of existence - the Void sparkled with the realms of Oblivion, of which the Deadlands are just one among many. If you enter a stable Oblivion realm, you're there to stay.

can Daedra do the same on Nirn?
Yes, Morrowind is full of them. A Daedra has the same options of entering Mundus as a mortal has to enter Oblivion: Summoning (temporary), pact, stable portals or (unstable) liminal bridges.

Could there be Daedra that were left behind on Nirn when Akatosh closed the gates--possibly forever trapped?
Only thing trapping a Daedroth is a soultrap and a big enough gem. You destroy a Daedroth, and it's spirit is cast into the void, from which it will emerge back sooner or later.

As for some left behind, sure. Lots of them.

If that is true, then why were all the Daedra in the Imperial City--as well as others who had come through gates elsewhere--banished along with Mehrunes Dagon?

Gameplay: The world was switched, you enter different cells, and in the "non endgame" cells (neither pre nor past) there simply aren't any Daedra present nor ever spawned.

Lore wise you can explain this by something of Akatosh's doing, though I wouldn't buy this - that's really simply a gameplay thingy.

PS: This is forgotten very often, but every single "Oth" gate in game is opened by Mythic Dawn agents. And they crumble by themselves after a couple of minutes as soon as White Gold stands again.

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Wow. Thanks bg! You deserve a reward or something.

Very clear, very understandable. Excellent reply in all. Cleared a lot of thoughts in my mind.

I think its interesting that only Dagon's realm was sealed off. But again, I would like to know the extent to which it was sealed. Could a person, for example, go to a Dagon shrine and speak with the daedric prince? In other words, can Dagon communicate through the liminal barrier put up by Akatosh?

Mortals can summon other mortals (-> Doors of Oblivion), mortals can be summoned by Daedra (mentioned several times during Shivering Isles). Though there is a difference: The Daedra you call are usually in the Void, and will do everything to escape the Void. Mortals however are never in the Void, and therefore often choose to ignore the call (-> Doors of Oblivion).

This was also very interesting. I should play Shivering Isles again. :shrug: In the Bartimaeus Trilogy, it is almost the exact opposite. In that lore universe, the demons reside in a void-like realm and hate being summoned to Earth, but are forced to anyway by magic.

Anyway, I'll expose the motivation behind these questions soon enough. Then everyone can judge whether my ideas are lore-worthy. :rofl:

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I'm thinking about making a resurrection mod for Oblivion.

I want it to be a fairly involved process, you need to really care about this person to bother.

One of my ideas is that it would require (possibly among other things) a Varla Stone.

Does that make sense from a lore standpoint?

The UESPwiki says they are thought to be fragments of Aetherius, a realm associated with the souls of the dead and magicka.

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Lore on Varla stones and Welkynd stones is hard to come by. :poke: There is this text - Magic from the Sky

In here it says:

From time to time, fragments of Aetherius fall from the heavens. The people know these fragments as 'shooting stars', and from time to time, such Aetherial fragments are found on Nirn...Another, rarer form of Aetherial fragment is called 'meteroic glass'. It is from such fragments that other rare Ayleid enchanted artifacts are crafted -- Welkynd Stones and Varla Stones...Another rare enchanted item found in Ayleid ruins is called a Varla Stone [Aldmeris - "star stone"]. Varla Stones are remarkably powerful, enabling untrained users to restore magical energy to any number of enchanted items. Because of their great value and utility, these items are also extremely rare,..

So I don't see a reason why you can bend the lore to suit your need here. :thumbup:

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  • 1 month later...

I have a fair number of questions involving things.

Having asked and gotten a brief I thought I'd pry a bit more.

On Mannimarco, whom is basically the king of worms/god of words Arch necromancer of the faction and acts I was looking at things on lore and saw that he was around during the dragon break which was during the first era, this would put him at least a few thousand years old, far older than any normal elf would life. This leads me to him being either a Lich, or somehow ascended to a higher level, which does not make sense if you kill him in oblivion. I'm just wondering exactly what the story about him is.

Second thing is what is Mankar Camoran exactly, is he like his own personal sigil stone for his own realm, but also, how is it that he can wear the amulet of kings, that part doesn't make sense to me to this day, is he like somehow part of the line of emperors that can wear it? Also, how old is he really?

I'll have more, but those are the two biggies for now. I'm just still trying to find a spark to get me writing a story for my house. only thing that's stopping me from going on right now.

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  • 1 year later...

This has probably been asked before, but I have a little question: do daedra eat?

I only ask because the village mage in the mod I'm working on has a permanent scamp "assistant" (like the conjurers in dungeons) and I'd like to know whether or not she would feed it. My guess would be probably no, given that they can't really die and so are presumably without mortal concerns like that, but I am curious...

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  • 1 month later...

Well I enjoyed the last answers so much, I've come back for another question XD (the scamp has a plate of rat meat now). Does the Imperial Cult canonise saints? I know the Tribunal Temple does (Saint Felms, Saint Aralor etc) but I'm not so sure about the Imperials. I ask because I'd like to have some nice things (relics and such) in my village chapel for thieves the faithful to steal marvel at. Anyone know of the existence of any Imperial saints?

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Yep. Alessia, Morihaus, and Pelinal come to mind, and KotN has Saint Kaladas, a craftsman. In monkey truth/fanon side of things, there is Al-Bede's Agdistra, and I wrote on Andrea a while back. I remember there was a thread in the lore forum about making up Cyrodiilic saints a few years ago, though I don't have the link on hand. Basically, yes, there are a ton of saints and feel free to make up your own.

Edited by Lady_Nerevar
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  • 8 months later...
  • 7 months later...

Just out of curiosity, does the lore have anything on life on/in the moons?

I know this post is about 8 months old, but I believe there is a monkeytruth in which the Khajiit, doped to the eyeballs on moon sugar, formed a tower from their bodies to colonise one of the moons...

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  • 1 year later...

I'm curious about Count Valga, and his family.   From what I've read, he died in a battle with Nords from Skyrim, but not much more is said... that I can find.  If there are books on the subject, please bring them to my attention.  In the quest "canvas the castle"  there are a few vague clues, but no real meat and potatoes about the history.   

 

I'm most interested in the timeframe of his death.  Any Information about the battle itself?   At what age, did Alessia lose her father?   Did the circumstances of his death play a part in Alessia's feelings regarding certain races, or is there more to that story that I am missing? 

 

"Recent Wife of Marius Caro"  -- Talking to Alessia, it's obvious that she is dedicated to the Empire, she visits the Chapel daily, and would one day like to make a pilgrimage to the wayshrines.  She also visits her Mother, Countess Arriana Valga, for a few days each month (passing several wayshrines along the journey).   Being Heiress-Apparent to County Chorrol, what led her to marry at such a young age?  Was it for love, or out of duty to the empire?  

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  • 9 years later...

I have a likely Challenging one:

Do you think that a mod that introduces a Dark Questline for "Oblivion", the Platform, considering the main Questline of save Martin & save the Imperials against invasion, having the Dark Questline pose an alternative course through TES History: Side with the Daedra; facilitate the invasion of Cyrodiil & the killing of Imperials & Nords, would contradict Cannon?

I'm specifically considering the Dragon Priest Masks. When the Wooden Mask is worn, it transports the PC back in time. If Time Travel is possible, could a "Skyrim" Hero conspire the invasion of Cyrodiil before the events of the Skyrim game took place?

Would a "Dark Questline" necessarily prove futile, or could it fork the Campaign Setting?

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