Keyboards

[vometia]

I thought keyboards needed their own topic, since they're part of the computer you use most, but are often neglected and almost added as an afterthought when either buying or assembling a PC.

What spurred me to start this topic was posting the "desktop" picture in the Lurkers' Lair and seeing my keyboard glowing away merrily. And though the glowing bit is nice, as are some of the keyboard's other features, overall it's a bit... well, frankly, it's rubbish. The reason it's rubbish is that "durability" doesn't seem to be something that was factored into its design, and the key-coatings started to wear off after just six months of ownership; I've now let a year lapse and I'm not sure if I can still return it (I suspect I can under EU law, but that's not what this is about) which is rather remiss of me, but I figured I should at least let others learn from my experience.

The keyboard in question is a Microsoft Sidewinder X6, and cost about £45, so it's not exactly cheap. The reason I chose it was because it has a detachable keypad, and I'm not a fan of really wide keyboards. My previous keyboard was a Unicomp PS/2 space-saver, which is a standard "clicky" IBM PS/2 keyboard minus the keypad; the reason I replaced it was that the absence of a keypad was sometimes a nuisance, though I have to admit I haven't actually used the keypad with this thing (its ability to plug into either side of the keyboard is nice, though). It has to be said, it does have a number of rather nice features, as I already mentioned: in addition to the backlit keys and ambidextrous keypad, it has some multimedia keys such as play/pause/etc, a volume control and several programmable gaming keys. The flipside is what made me somewhat leery in the first place, which is the concern that corners had been cut: as already mentioned, the key coating is extremely fragile, with several keys now quite badly damaged (I hasten to add I don't have long nails) and the the keyboard has no adjustment for angle/height: when Googling this I saw it claimed it was for ergonomic reasons, which I accepted in spite of it flying in the face of years of wisdom; and indeed, I never got used to the flat aspect and have had to lean it on my screen's base to get it at a reasonable angle, though it's not perfect and a year on I still haven't got used to it.

In short, it's one to avoid.

What I've now done is order a couple of keyboards from Unicomp's supplier (I'll add a URL once I've checked with the mods, though I have no affiliation with the company) which I should've done to start with: they're relatively no-frills as keyboards go and they're pricey. That said, the price is what I paid for the Sidewinder and Unicomp keyboards have a reputation for lasting basically forever. I've ordered two, a buckling spring and a "quiet touch": the latter is something new and suspicious for me, but buckling spring keyboards, though fabulous, are a little noisy and anti-social when gaming, so I figured a choice was a good idea. Whatever I decide on, my partner can have the other one! And when I say they last forever, I do still have the nice little space-saver keyboards which still work perfectly, but there's that lack of keypad problem (and the fact that they were only available in U.S. layout, which is inconvenient for me); plus the new ones are black, which is much cooler than the old beige colour scheme.

I'll post more when they arrive.

[jaggedbubbles]

I currently use a wired Logitech Wave keyboard. It's lasted me about two years with no problems. It is a bit loud to type on, but my other keyboard is an IBM Model M keyboard that requires a PS/2 connection (and it still works), and the Logitech is silent in comparison.

I was actually unaware that Microsoft's Sidewinder series included keyboards. I've used one of the older Sidewinder mice, and I rather liked it, so I would've assumed that the quality would have crossed over. Thanks for posting the review!

[HeyYou]

I have an old Micro Innovations wireless keyboard. It was used when I got it back in 2004. A few keys have the letters wiped off, but, after six plus years, I am not surprised. It is quiet, comfortable, and works just fine. Batteries last three to four months. No issues there. The mouse, on the other hand..... EATS batteries. I stopped using it.....

[vometia]

I currently use a wired Logitech Wave keyboard. It's lasted me about two years with no problems. It is a bit loud to type on, but my other keyboard is an IBM Model M keyboard that requires a PS/2 connection (and it still works), and the Logitech is silent in comparison.

I was actually unaware that Microsoft's Sidewinder series included keyboards. I've used one of the older Sidewinder mice, and I rather liked it, so I would've assumed that the quality would have crossed over. Thanks for posting the review!

Oh yeah, you've reminded me, the Unicomp keyboards are the same as the IBM Model M: so you know just how loud they are. The only louder keyboard I've encountered was I think a Dell(?) Optiplex, which was incredibly noisy, but lovely to use. Can't say how durable it was, though, since I only had it for about a year. (For the sake of pedantry, the keyboards supplied with the IBM twinax terminals were the loudest of all, but they had some sort of electromechanical "clunk" device which I feel was rather unsporting of them).

Logitech is a name I would've formerly trusted, but my Logitech MX Revolution mouse bought around the same time as the Microsoft keyboard has some rather worrying defects: they include a peeling coating, poor battery life (Logitech claim 12(?) to 18 days, I find it lasts 3-4 days before I get the red warning light) and a very flimsy cradle that's difficult to get to charge. Interestingly, my partner's Logitech mouse bought about 18 months prior to mine is noticeably better quality and just has a much nicer tactile feel to it. The battery seems to last longer and again looking at the cradle, it's very noticeably better constructed. The Revolution MX may have just been a blip (even as their flagship model) but I do worry that Logitech may be going the same way as Creative Labs.

[grond]

My Logitech Cordless iTouch Keyboard has been with me since 1999. It's seen some keys pulled off ( to allow for more certainty when playing Tomb Raider ) , it has a broken 'enter' key on the number pad, and it's brown from the smoking done near it. Every few minutes I blow across the keys to removes the dog hair that's fallen onto it. I love it, and one day I hope to pull off each key and wash the brown away.

[vometia]

I'm not sure if that's an endorsement of old stuff, Logitech, smoking or dog hair. Perhaps all of them.

[Hanaisse]

Standard old Compaq PS/2 PnP here. Probably about as dirty as grond's (although cat hair, not dog hair) but no broken keys, fairly quiet and about 10+ years old. Although I do have a Microsoft wireless keyboard/mouse combo tucked away in a closet somewhere. I keep meaning to find it, but why mess with a good thing.

Funny how the older technology seems the better quality.

[Galvon]

I just use my laptops keyboard got this lappy at christmas and I love it because without this I wouldnt have joined TESA anyways I use a Saitek Wireless Netbook Mouse for all my gaming and modelling needs

[nottlong]

I am using s ogitech keyboard that is about 8 years old and makes gronds looks new,no missing keys though. I am also using an old logitech mouse That has been in use fo at least 6 years. Yes I believe that some of the older stuff is built better then the new stuff.

[Critterman]

Yes I believe that some of the older stuff is built better then the new stuff.

I agree, my keyboard is an old dynex "internet keyboard", never had a problem with it, just a bit dirty .

Now, mouses on the other hand... I've gone through so many lately its incredibly aggravating. Expensive logitech G5 mouse just decides to stop working one day so now I'm stuck with this gateway mouse that came with my dad's computer, its not bad, just only has two buttons and a wheel. But it seems everything I get that is logitech breaks a little after a month. I literally have 3 logitech headsets that don't work because of loose wiring in an earphone or mic, all breaking not much longer than a month after buying them . I have to find a brand that makes equipment as durable as they used to make them...

[vometia]

I'll take the risk of suggesting Sennheiser, even though my headphones are circa late 1990s. But they don't make mice or keyboards, and I'm inclined to agree with any suggestion that the latter aren't as good as they used to be...

[_echo]

Standard Dell keyboard from 2006. No key problems and no fading of letters. Best keyboard ive had.

[Jheuloh]

I possess a glow in the dark Saitek - purchased it mid 2007, and it's still in good condition, although the wrist-rest for it has a stain from where my left hand has been all these years.

[vometia]

I checked with Who that it was okay to post the name of the company where I got the keyboards (I can be randomly over-cautious for someone who so often makes a fool of themselves in public with such wild abandon ). They're called PCkeyboard (dotcom, if you prefer) and still make the old-style IBM Model M, Unicomp or whatever you want to call them "clicky" models.

I've just ordered a couple of these "space saver" models in black, like I mentioned, one clicky and one not. Hopefully they'll arrive in a few days; when they do, I'll post... well, perhaps not a review, but an opinion, at least! I'm hoping that this is an example where they're still as good as they used to be.

[vometia]

Well they've arrived. The first thing I notice is that they're going to take some getting used to because I haven't used a keyboard with a numeric keypad for years, and I'm concerned that the now unfamiliar width may pose some problems with the use of the mouse, especially when gaming.

The keyboard itself is... it's actually quite curious after using the Microsoft Sidewinder. The keys feel much more... I dunno, just "more". I'm using the "quiet touch" one at present but it's noticeably more tactile; and while not as loudly clattery as the buckling spring keyboard, it has a far more positive feel than the Microsoft keyboard. And even though it's an unfamiliar shape for my fingers which have yet to get used to it, I've noticed that I'm already making far fewer typos: the adjacent keys are far more forgiving to accidental nudges and clumsy finger placement. The only real problems I've had regard getting used to the overall layout: I keep hovering over that unfamiliar numeric keypad when I'm looking for the editing keys, and occasionally hit the backslash (located next to the left shift key on this model) as it doesn't have the Sidewinder's additional row of useless programmable keys to rest my left hand on!

I'm still wiggling it about trying to get used to the new position: I'm finding that centring it on the main part of the keyboard is most comfortable since having it offset makes my arms rest on the desk uncomfortably since I use a curved desk, though that pushes the mouse ever further away which is already making me reluctant to use it. But as mentioned, that's something largely peculiar to my arrangement and not something most people would find to be an issue - quite the reverse, probably, since the keyboard does away with much of the extraneous surround, so it's actually quite small and narrow for a full-size keyboard.

In terms of appearance, it's interesting to see it in the flesh: I wasn't completely taken with the black/grey combination in the pictures but in use, it not only looks very stylish but is well thought-out: again unlike the Sidewinder there's no backlighting, which might be problematic in low-light environments (such as my office quite often) for the slightly trendier-looking all-black keyboards, but the mid-grey keys with black symbols are very visible even in the relatively low light emitted by the screen.

Build quality: always hard to say so early on, and I'd thought the Sidewinder was a decent quality keyboard until the key coatings started peeling off after six months of use. That said, this one feels so much more solid: the keys are very positive, have a good feel and there's no odd wobbling or any other concerns or distractions. I'm astonished, actually: I've never used a non-buckling-spring keyboard with such a positive feel. It's also a heavy bugger, too: I can't say if it's exactly the same as the older Model Ms I have, but it's in the same region. It's certainly not a lightweight piece of fluff like some keyboards, so once it's in position, that's where it's staying. And putting it in position is also painless compared to the Sidewinder as this thing thoughtfully has stands provided. They're adjustable inasmuch as they're either up or down, but the up position works just fine for me, so no concerns there.

Niggles? Well they're always there if you look hard enough! Fortunately they're pretty minor: there's a slight creak if you give the case a good, firm shove where the arrow keys are, since the top bows upwards very slightly at that point (about 0.5mm), something present on both keyboards; though this seems to be a common feature of full-width keyboards and I had to deliberately go looking for it unlike some others I've used which creaked and groaned just in normal use. This one doesn't, happily. Also while typing this review I've had three instances of double keystrokes; not really a problem but worth mentioning. If it persists, I'll mention it to the guys at PCkeyboard.com and see what they have to say.

In terms of "extras", it's moved on a little from the original Model M that appeared on the PS/2 years ago. When I say "extras" I mean compared to that venerable model rather than in comparison to newer keyboards since it's just been a case of catch-up, and they amount to the extra Windows keys that appeared in the '90s (a left and right start button and a menu button) and optionally a USB cable rather than a PS/2-flavoured one. That's about it. Oh, and the IBM logo has finally been replaced by a Unicomp one! But it still says "Model M" on its underneath, and for those concerned about such things, "made in the USA", which suits me fine: personally I rather like my stuff to be made in places where there's a decent working environment.

So that's about it, really. Time will tell in terms of how reliable it is, though at this stage I have no reason to doubt it won't perform; even when it's full of crumbs! I may attempt to remap some of the pointless Windows keys to something more useful: play/pause and volume up & down would be good, if it's possible; I've successfully mapped keys in the past, but not for odd multimedia functions. Hopefully the extra width and absence of a wrist-rest won't cause any RSI-type issues since my hands are slightly feeling the strain these days, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Microsoft keyboard worsened those aspects more than this one will.

I'm wary of lavishing too much praise so early on after my Sidewinder experience, but the first hour's use has been positive.

[vometia]

For the record I found something called Sharpkeys that successfully remaps the keys in question. I assume it's legit, certainly Googling it produces plenty of results, but caveat emptor etc.

[Critterman]

Wow, thanks for that thorough review

I'll keep that keyboard in mind if this one ever starts acting up. Though, $70 bucks is a little steep for me atm. Just because of that, I would probably settle with one of the less "solid" ones at best buy... The keyboard i have is only about $18, and it hasn't ever caused any trouble yet

[jaggedbubbles]

I like my keyboards ergonomic and/or slightly curved, so while I do find these keyboards intriguing, I don't think I'd ever actually buy one.

Thanks for the review though, I do have some friends that would find this a good buy.

[vometia]

Wow, thanks for that thorough review

I'll keep that keyboard in mind if this one ever starts acting up. Though, $70 bucks is a little steep for me atm. Just because of that, I would probably settle with one of the less "solid" ones at best buy... The keyboard i have is only about $18, and it hasn't ever caused any trouble yet

I like my keyboards ergonomic and/or slightly curved, so while I do find these keyboards intriguing, I don't think I'd ever actually buy one.

Thanks for the review though, I do have some friends that would find this a good buy.

Although the price can make one wince a little, especially when there are functional keyboards around for a tenth of the price, I'm reminded of some advice given by a friend of mine. He commented that saving a little money on something you use all day, every day might not make good long-term sense especially when you might be prepared to spend £/$500 on a new graphics card every couple of years. Which isn't a comment about anybody else, it just made me think.

Anyway, a couple of weeks on I thought it was time to write a "living with them" post. First of all, a couple of days after using the "quiet touch" model I moved on to the standard clicky version that the IBM Model M is so well known for; partly as my partner quite fancied the idea of the quiet model, and I do actually quite like the noisy buckling spring variety.

The first thing to note is that unsurprisingly, it is very loud: it won't win you any friends in an environment where silence is at a premium. But if not, it's awesome. The quiet model had a really impressive "feel", as I said; I reckon it's better than any other rubber dome keyboard I've used, and I've used them since the 1980s in one form or another. But the buckling spring model is even better. And curiously, in spite of the noise, it seems rather more easy on the fingers.

The various worries I had seem to have come to nothing. The mouse doesn't really collide with this keyboard any more than it did with the Sidewinder sans keypad; and unless I'm in almost pitch darkness, the backlighting of the Sidewinder, whilst fancy, isn't really missed. And neither are its other numerous gimmicks.

On the contrary, I now have a keyboard that is much more comfortable to use: the keypresses are both more definite and less of a strain, as much of a contradiction as that might sound; but I think the combination of a far more positive keypress and a sculpted keytop make typos far less likely and it's simply far more comfortable.

I suppose there's not a great deal more to add. It's just a much nicer keyboard to use; and as the thing that's responsible for most of the interaction with the computer, I think that's important. And for the aesthete, it also looks nicer; admittedly less fancy, but also a lot less tacky.

Only time will tell if it's a good long-term purchase, but my previous experience of Unicomp keyboards has been very positive.

For my next trick I need to find a decent mouse, as my Logitech MX Revolution is pretty much the mouse equivalent of the Microsoft Sidewinder keyboard: feature rich, but it does none of the essentials at all well and is something I would rate only slightly above junk status. Sadly, Unicomp don't make wireless mice with lots of buttons, but maybe it's time I took a second look at wired mice.

Edit: here's a review and numerous comments for those who need a second opinion. Of course it's a second opinion that largely agrees with my own.

[DaMage]

I have my laptop keyboard, and here seems to be a good place ot gripe about it.

There is a loose cable on it, so often my space, enter, backspace, up and down keys will just stop working....then a few days later it will start again. It is a simple problem that I could fix if the warrenty wasnt there, but Ill have ot send it back to be fixed...which i cant do cause i need my laptop for school way too much.

Anyway, normally i just use whatever keyboard is lying around, I have USB keyboards, the keyboards with the circlur plug and even still have one with the long flat connection. Never had a fancy one, dont see the point as i wear out keyboard very quickly.

[vometia]

I have my laptop keyboard, and here seems to be a good place ot gripe about it.

There is a loose cable on it, so often my space, enter, backspace, up and down keys will just stop working....then a few days later it will start again. It is a simple problem that I could fix if the warrenty wasnt there, but Ill have ot send it back to be fixed...which i cant do cause i need my laptop for school way too much.

Well at least you don't take the approach of a friend of mine: anything that's annoying him, no matter how useful or expensive, gets a club-hammer taken to it! I actually feel sorry for some of the things that have offended him in some way and attempted to rescue them, but I just get the "it has to die" speech. Odd, because he's easy going in other ways. Maybe that's why.

I must admit I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation. Come here and moan about it probably.

Anyway, normally i just use whatever keyboard is lying around, I have USB keyboards, the keyboards with the circlur plug and even still have one with the long flat connection. Never had a fancy one, dont see the point as i wear out keyboard very quickly.

That last bit is the point for some people: when writing this thread, I Googled "model-M keyboard" (or something like that) and some people are really obsessed; but one of the reasons they're obsessed is that they're still using '80s vintage keyboards that are still going strong when others have long since died. I mainly went for this type because I'm really fussy about stuff I have to use all the time "feeling" right, but the fact that it's likely to keep on going for as long as I do is an added bonus.

I could go off on a whole new tangent about "they don't make 'em like they used to", but I'll just get people queuing up to say "hey, you're Old"! I am a bit nonplussed by the way that even quite expensive stuff is often viewed as essentially disposable these days, though.

[vometia]

Late update-ette on my keyboards: there seem to be some "issues" with the Quiet Touch keyboard in that it suffers from key-bounce, i.e. you get quite a lot of double keystrokes. I think I mentioned that, but living with it is a bit annoying; it seems to be a known problem, but one currently without a solution. A chap from PCkeyboard thinks its a physical problem but given that it gets worse when put through a KVM suggests to me that it's more likely some sort of firmware gaffe. As such, I'd probably hold fire on that one until they get it sorted out.

The buckling spring one is superb, however, and you're seriously not going to find better unless you're lucky enough to own an original PS/2 keyboard: the latter are marginally better in that the thicker plastic case doesn't flex in the slightest, but you pay for that advantage in that you get to endure the Joy of Beige. Whereas this one comes in a much more stylish black and has the extra keys that some people either love or hate (but the latter can do what I did which is to remap the Windows keys to volume up/down, so no more game minimising in the middle of a firefight!)

[HeyYou]

Late update-ette on my keyboards: there seem to be some "issues" with the Quiet Touch keyboard in that it suffers from key-bounce, i.e. you get quite a lot of double keystrokes. I think I mentioned that, but living with it is a bit annoying; it seems to be a known problem, but one currently without a solution. A chap from PCkeyboard thinks its a physical problem but given that it gets worse when put through a KVM suggests to me that it's more likely some sort of firmware gaffe. As such, I'd probably hold fire on that one until they get it sorted out.

The buckling spring one is superb, however, and you're seriously not going to find better unless you're lucky enough to own an original PS/2 keyboard: the latter are marginally better in that the thicker plastic case doesn't flex in the slightest, but you pay for that advantage in that you get to endure the Joy of Beige™. Whereas this one comes in a much more stylish black and has the extra keys that some people either love or hate (but the latter can do what I did which is to remap the Windows keys to volume up/down, so no more game minimising in the middle of a firefight!)

I used a registry hack to disable the left windows key. OBSE still picks it up though.

[vometia]

I used a registry hack to disable the left windows key. OBSE still picks it up though.

Registry hacks are evil. And as such, thoroughly recommended! I do find those otherwise useless keys to be quite handy as multimedia replacements for keyboards that don't have the latter (which is most of them) but I did learn early on not to make the left-Windows-key double as "play/pause".

[vometia]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone encountered a Das Keyboard before? At the rather eye-watering price of nearly £120 it's even more expensive than my buckling spring keyboard, so I'm wondering exactly what you get for your money, or if it's just the next trendy brand. I don't need a new keyboard (and I'm unlikely to do so, except for bouts of "gear acquisition syndrome"!), I'm just interested to know what it's about.