Booting off a CF "floppy"

[vometia]

"Argh". That seems to sum up my mood over the past two days.

The background is that I need to update the BIOS in my motherboard: I want to install a second CPU and it's not having it: apparently it doesn't recognise the second Opteron 248 as being the same model as the first Opteron 248, so I'm hoping an update will either make it see sense or disable the check for the CPU's internal model number.

Updating the BIOS is easy, provided you have a floppy disc drive and a MS/DOS boot disc. I have neither. Well that's a lie, I have a 3.5" drive but it's broken, and a boot disc so old it no longer reads anyway. One could rant about why manufacturers aren't exactly making things simple, and I most likely will do. But another time.

Fortunately I'd managed to format a CF card as a MS/DOS (or DR-, Free- or HP/DOS) bootable, and it worked fine. That is until Windows 7 silently replaced the boot block with an unbootable boot block. Thanks for that.

Try as I might I can't make it bootable again. I've tried the Windows Enabler and HP USB formatting tool, but no luck, either with the version of MS/DOS I already had or with a copy of the Windows 98 DOS components. It just sits there looking stupid, no prompt, message or anything.

Has anybody experienced the same thing, and if so, have you found a solution? Because it's driving me nuts. (And the neighbour's house alarm going off at literally infinite volume isn't improving my mood much...)

[Brozly]

There should be a way to Reformat from BIOS, the upgrades generaly come with a DOS program.

[Hanaisse]

... apparently it doesn't recognise the second Opteron 248 as being the same model as the first Opteron 248, so I'm hoping an update will either make it see sense or disable the check for the CPU's internal model number.

Does it recognize the second CPU at all, regardless of model, in Device Manager and BIOS? Most motherboards can auto-detect this.

Have you tried re-installing (or updating) the motherboard drivers?

Updating the BIOS is easy, provided you have a floppy disc drive and a MS/DOS boot disc.

Well, no it's not easy, and it's very risky. Make sure you backup your existing BIOS first. I'm not sure I understand why you need a MS/DOS boot disc. Everything I've read about flashing a BIOS is simply read off a floppy or CD or USB. Have you tried burning a CD with the updated BIOS?

Fortunately I'd managed to format a CF card as a MS/DOS (or DR-, Free- or HP/DOS) bootable, and it worked fine. That is until Windows 7 silently replaced the boot block with an unbootable boot block. Thanks for that.

Sorry, I don't know what a CF card is. Again, not sure why you need an MS/DOS boot disc.

You said you're 'hoping' a BIOS update will solve the problem. If I were you I'd make very sure it would solve the problem before attempting it. You could potentially run into bigger problems with updated BIOS no longer recognizing the processor model at all.

Another thing to check is if your PSU can support the additional power requirements. Is your Win7 up to date with all the latest updates? The OS needs to support multiple CPU's as well as the BIOS.

The only other thing I can think of is are you sure the new processor works properly?

[vometia]

Does it recognize the second CPU at all, regardless of model, in Device Manager and BIOS? Most motherboards can auto-detect this.

Have you tried re-installing (or updating) the motherboard drivers?

It apparently recognises it. The reason I say "apparently" is that the POST reports two CPUs, before moaning that they're not of the same type and halting, so I can't even get into the BIOS settings let alone boot the OS, unfortunately. It's a known issue when using model numbers that differ in something as trivial as OEM vs. retail packages so disabling the check will hopefully solve the problem, as it has for others who've run up against it. One reason I'm confident that it should technically work is that it's seeing all 4GB memory, 2GB per CPU (the Opterons use a built-in MMU, so in order for the BIOS to see all the memory, both CPUs need to function correctly).

Well, no it's not easy, and it's very risky. Make sure you backup your existing BIOS first. I'm not sure I understand why you need a MS/DOS boot disc. Everything I've read about flashing a BIOS is simply read off a floppy or CD or USB. Have you tried burning a CD with the updated BIOS?

That's the way Tyan release their BIOS updates: the BIOS writing program will only run from an MSDOS boot disc, which they thoughtfully don't provide. I've used other BIOS updaters that run quite happily under Windows but this isn't one of them, unfortunately. I had to go through the same rigmarole for the SATA cards (I had to use add-on cards since I have quite a lot of hard discs in this system) which was quite a hassle, but I eventually succeeded. This time, though, success is eluding me.

Sorry, I don't know what a CF card is. Again, not sure why you need an MS/DOS boot disc.

Compact Flash - the same things most digital cameras use. I guess it's the same thing that's often referred to as a "USB stick" though I'm not certain. But the MSDOS boot is sadly non-negotiable since the update program won't run under anything else.

You said you're 'hoping' a BIOS update will solve the problem. If I were you I'd make very sure it would solve the problem before attempting it. You could potentially run into bigger problems with updated BIOS no longer recognizing the processor model at all.

I am always a bit twitchy about updating the BIOS, but even without the 2nd CPU support, it has a number of bugfixes that would make life quite a lot easier so I'd rather go ahead with it regardless. If things go wrong it wouldn't be the first time I've ended up with an unbootable system, but I can be quite resourceful given enough moaning!

Another thing to check is if your PSU can support the additional power requirements. Is your Win7 up to date with all the latest updates? The OS needs to support multiple CPU's as well as the BIOS.

The only other thing I can think of is are you sure the new processor works properly?

The PSU should be okay: even with all those discs, 750 watts is plenty, and it doesn't have a hungry graphics card to stress the system. I'm pretty certain the new CPU is fine - I could swap it for the main CPU to be certain, but at this stage the problem seems to be the BIOS being unnecessarily pedantic.

For the record, the operating system is FreeBSD, although that's academic since the BIOS refuses to boot with "mismatched" CPUs.

Edit:

There should be a way to Reformat from BIOS, the upgrades generaly come with a DOS program.

Hmm, didn't think about that. I don't think the BIOS has a built-in updater, but it's worth a second look.

[vometia]

Aha! Success. As usual I just needed to say in front of everyone, "hey, look at me, I'm clueless!"

Getting a bootable CF involved one of two things, though I'd run out of enough patience to do one thing at a time so I'm not sure which. It was either telling the HP USB formatter to use a FAT32 filesystem (the documentation I'd seen didn't specify) or because I'd previously forgotten to run Windows Enabler as administrator. Whatever it was, I finally have a bootable CF card.

So the next step is to ensure I have an unbootable FreeBSD system. I mean bootable. Trying out the 2nd CPU will take a while longer, however, since I need to find a tube of thermal paste, and I've no idea where I put it. Or any of the others.

[Hanaisse]

Ohh, I see. You didn't mention what MB it was hence my confusion (MS/DOS, ick). Glad to hear you got it half sorted with the CF (compact flash, duh lol), hopefully the rest goes much easier.

[vometia]

Ohh, I see. You didn't mention what MB it was hence my confusion (MS/DOS, ick). Glad to hear you got it half sorted with the CF (compact flash, duh lol), hopefully the rest goes much easier.

My prediction is that it'll be as easy as getting the CF to boot. Which is why I'll be leaving the next step 'til tomorrow. Or next week or something. I'll report back via the medium of moan once I've started! But thanks for the positive wishes.

[Brozly]

Sounds Good..

Actually I think the CFs are actually a "Mini" hard dirve, not Quite the same as a USB stick, also seem to only be on higher end cameras, or maybe older ones...

[vometia]

Sounds Good..

Actually I think the CFs are actually a "Mini" hard dirve, not Quite the same as a USB stick, also seem to only be on higher end cameras, or maybe older ones...

You used to get them as mini hard drives back in "ye oldene dayes" (well, maybe five years back, anyway), which really were quite a feat of miniaturisation, but nowadays they're just regular old flash memory AFAIK. But it is the same card I usually use in my Canon 5D which is probably quite a demonstration of no common sense at all! But that never was one of my strengths.

[HeyYou]

Common sense is a misnomer. It isn't common at all.

If you have the bootable USB stick, should be able to just run the updater from there, and be golden.

Thermal paste goes between the CPU, and the Heatsink. Doesn't take much, a thin coating is adequate to the task.

You can download bootable MSDOS images off the net, burn it, and your bios utility (along with whatever data files it wants) to a CD as well. I have done that in the past..... Works great. Just have patience, and make sure it is actually finished before you power cycle the machine. (don't ask.)

[vometia]

I'd wondered about using a CD, but there were dire warnings about having stuff loaded in HIMEM which may well happen if I actually want to read it! Depends on how the BIOS decides to emulate it, I suppose. Besides, I have no CD drive in that computer either, and don't really fancy taking another one to bits to get hold of one - dismantling one computer is already one more than I'd really prefer to do!

Finding an MSDOS image proved to be more of a challenge than I'd thought, but fortunately I found a basic Windows 98 archive lying around somewhere. Not often you use the words "Windows 98" and "fortunately" in the same sentence! But hopefully just using it as a loader for the BIOS flasher won't be too difficult for it.

I always find it a bit odd just how little paste is needed; "about a grain of rice" is the recommendation from what I recall. But I suppose it's not surprising when you consider just how hard the heatsink is clamped to it. I have some grease remover that I can use to clean off the remnants from my first attempt since it's probably now covered in fluff, hair, gravel, soup, gravy etc but I can't remember where I left that either. At least I'm consistent.

[vometia]

Guess what? Worked fine in my desktop, but in the server that needs the new BIOS, not a chance. Tried every BIOS combination possible, even removed the SATA controllers in case they were causing confusion (which led to a rather hairy experience where they seemed to not want to work when I put them back ) but it's just not playing. I'm not sure how I had it working before, but now that I'm well into the third day I think it's time to stop mucking about and order a replacement chip instead. At least I know I'm not alone: when Googling the various problems like the inexplicable "missing operating system" (no, it really is there--and the partition's active, and... etc) loads of other people are reporting the same problem with little apparent success avoiding it. I think in order to update the BIOS, one has to rely on the existing one cooperating. And this one's not.

So that's that. I'm done with the software approach. I'll be getting something I can physically touch and whose pins I can bend out of shape - at least it'll have an excuse for not working!

I remember when I was younger hearing a lot of people doing an awful lot of swearing and general bad-temperedness when they needed to do anything BIOS-related. Now I know why.