The future of modding, and the future of the Nexus

[Lanceor]

I've reposted this here for those of us who don't have access to the Mod Authors forum at Nexus.

The recent spate with Gmod has opened up a few avenues of conversation in the various threads talking about the future of modding, including paying for mods and paying mod authors for their mods. I've decided to write this thread to make sure you're aware of the direction in which every developer, publisher and modding website is pushing things and where game modding will be in the next couple of years. This is going to happen, big websites are talking with the major game developers and publishers behind closed doors about this very issue very regularly. In light of this, I'm going to share with you a copy of my conversation with Axel (the Nexus coder) on this matter and where we want to position the Nexus for the future.

It's going to be a long read, so get a cup of tea or something, maybe grab a cushion, and I hope it will be of interest to you. At the end I'd love to hear what you think about this issue. It's a big issue that is going to change modding communities as we know them. Money. Changes. Everything.

So a bit of a background to the situation. A website, GMod, have come along and shared their plans for the modding community in the future. This plan is the plan of every major file site on the internet right now (Curse, ZAM, IGN/GameSpy, ModDB/Desura, PCGamer (yes, the magazine), File Front, etc..the list goes on), so I'll just detail the main points. Be aware this isn't the plan of just GMod but all the sites I listed, and they're working with the game developers and publishers themselves, so there's no legal issue here. There are two ways things will go:

• Sites that get to work exclusively with game developers will create an "app store" for modders to upload their mods to and earn money on. Mod users will have to pay for the mods they want. The developers will take a cut of the profits, as too will the people running the app store, and the mod authors will see some of the money too, based on total sales of the mods they put in the store. Whether or not this will make free-modding impossible by limiting modding to a specific client (so you can only mod your game through the app store) awaits to be seen, but, in all likelihood this is likely.
  
• Sites that do not get to work exclusively with game developers, or operate for games that are more niche, will gear towards making a points system like the one Curse currently employs. Mod authors get "points" for every mod that is installed through the website's client software and at the end of the month mod authors will receive income from a "prize pool" of funds, generated through a cut of the premium subscriptions (normally about 20%), based on the total percentage of points that mod author has.
  

Those are the two options that will be happening in all the modding communities you know, and the big players like Valve and Blizzard have already implemented these systems for TF2 and Starcraft 2. It's only a matter of time before Bethesda, EA, etc. jump on-board too.

So what's the big deal? Surely mod authors making money off their hard work would be great!? Well, think a little more about this. I commented on this last night in the GMod poll thread:

As a community I believe we're already quite closed minded and covetous. There's a lot of modders out there that treat their work like it's a state secret and won't share techniques or assets with others. That is, of course, their prerogative, but the community is a lesser place because of this. If you add money to the modding community then a huge majority of mod authors are going to be like this. There won't be sharing of assets or techniques unless there's some monetary incentive for the person who owns the assets you want to use. And to be fair, I completely understand that, why should someone be allowed to use your work in their own and take 100% of all the proceeds? Want some help with a scripting problem on the forums? It's not going to happen, because if you release a good mod then you're taking money off someone else and diluting the prize pool. "Yeah, I'll help you out if you give me 25% of any money you earn off your mods". It's an extremely slippery slope that leads to 100% greed, and 0% community.

So with this in mind, how do I proceed. I've got to try and steer the Nexus in some direction either straight in to the eye of the storm that's already crowded with multi-multi-million dollar companies, or away from and around it. I can see the storm, it's on the horizon, which way do I go?

I had a little chat with Axel today on the topic, keeping him abreast of the situation, and I'm going to copy the chat in here for you to read. It covers most of the stuff already written but shows you how we think and talk. Bear in mind Axel is Italian, but his English is pretty damn good. I'm going to TL;DR this chat at the bottom so if you can't be bothered to read it, just skip the quote block.

TL;DR:

• I inform Axel of the future direction of modding already explained in this thread
  
• We discuss the pitfalls and problems with this future
  
• We agree that the Nexus should remain a completely free-to-use, free-to-mod environment
  
• Mod authors will not be paid for their mods on the Nexus any time soon
  
• Instead, we're going to aim to have a donation system for mod users to donate to their favourite mod authors
  
• We do not want mod authors asking for donations or offering "added content" or "the finished product" to only those people who donate to them
  
• People who donate to mod users can choose to have a special title, like "Donater" or "Community contributor" or similar that everyone will see
  

As far as we are concerned, we like the Nexus as it is right now. We want mods to be free for all, and we want an open community where mod authors share their work and techniques with others. I believe that, with a lot of big players moving their sites towards the methods described above, a niche will form that will provide a safe-haven for free mods, and mod authors who want to be a part of a free and open community, rather than a cut-throat money-driven community. This is where I want to position the Nexus sites.

What are your thoughts on this? What do you think about the direction modding is taking within the gaming industry? What do you think the Nexus should do about it?

It's great to be able to have these forums, and a private area away from the main forums, where I can discuss things with you mod authors.

[Ysne58]

As long as we are bringing this up here, how is something like this going to affect TESA if it happens?

[HeyYou]

Not likely anytime in the near future. Currently, beth games are founded on 'freely moddable, free mods'. I don't see that changing soon.

[Citrus]

When people started talking about GMod, I thought they were referring to the HL2 mod... Silly me.

I completely agree with Axel there and I think I should also state that Rune's system is inherently flawed, just like the "Top Files" system from the Nexus is. They are based in the opinion of the users and, as we testified many times and some rants and discussions were had about the subject, it's highly subjective (and that is all I'll say about this) but that's not the real point here.

With all the arguments of paying for mods to entice modders to work on them and make of them a business, almost like a part-time or even full-time job, I ask: did RST, Nehrim, Elsweyr and other similar, large scale mods, or even smaller mods needed any monetary incentive to be made? We all know how they turned out (RST isn't out yet but we know how it will turn out). We don't need to go very far: I started modding because I like the idea of creating something for myself and ultimately sharing it with people who play the same game. Whether they like it or not, that's a matter of personal taste.

TESA won't face similar problems because we are a relatively small community, dedicated to creating mods and passing on the knowledge to make them, whilst Nexus is a place to host the mods, first and foremost.

[Meo]

Im against paying for mods. But paying for resources... Seriously though, the moment you introduce money, it all goes to hell.

Take me for example, i make resources. First i gotta make sure my work is not distributed elsewhere, if it is, I have to sue to protect my rights, pain in the gluteus maximus. Next i have to make sure my stuff doesn't brake everyone games or they'll want a refund. If theres a no refund policy then one mistake and i get a bad rating and no one ever download my stuff ever again.

I gotta say, its difficult to say i would never do it. If everyone does it and make fortunes, why cant I? Imagine, lets say i charged each resources $1/download for every thing i released up until now. I would've made $28,481 !!! Thats insane and incredibly attractive. What if i charged $5/download. I could make a living out of this for sure.

Can you even imagine how much money the EyeCandy body would've made?

I want to mod for free, but i would feel really stupid if in five years im like part of a handful of modders giving their stuff away for others to make big money out of my talent.

[DaMage]

No no no no no.

I like free to use modding.....people share, combine together and get along with ach other as long as nobody is making money. The moment money is thrown into the mix, modding resources dry up, good mods are almost never released (as there arent many modders that are good at both creating complex scripts, good story and designing meshes) and when someone steal a bit of work it isnt just insulting (either by re-creation or directlying taking)...you'd have people suing each other over the ideas!!!!!

Thats not a productive community...the only good modding community is a free one.

I hope beth dont go this route for reason like, "controlling mods in a pay to use client is good DRM" it would be the death of modding for that game.....and possibly the series for PC if they did that.

[Khettienna]

I think there is a future where TES modders may opt to make money in some organized fashion that way, but I don't think it will be the only way to Relz. I think the size of the community, and the nature of its spirit, will keep free sharing going for years to come, and that the dark side of business isn't something we'll be forced to contend with. I think our sheer numbers keep our interests safe with companies who publish games that are modded heavily enough to create whole communities to support the effort.

Which is good, because I will never prefer making money from modding to not having to think about making money from modding. I mean, that's kind of the point for me, is that I don't have to care about what makes money and what doesn't. I can build what I want, on my terms, on my schedule, to suit my game needs or just for the sake of creative expression. Then I can share it with every one else freely, and get the occasional pat on the head for doing a good job or providing an idea or resource someone else can use to achieve the same satisfaction. That's not for sale at any price.

[Lanceor]

did RST, Nehrim, Elsweyr and other similar, large scale mods, or even smaller mods needed any monetary incentive to be made? We all know how they turned out (RST isn't out yet but we know how it will turn out). We don't need to go very far: I started modding because I like the idea of creating something for myself and ultimately sharing it with people who play the same game. Whether they like it or not, that's a matter of personal taste.

I think EP hit the nail on the head there. We enjoy modding. It's a hobby for us. We use modding to express our creativity. Regardless of how the modding world changes, it's still a hobby for us.

If history is a good predictor of the future, I see many professional "jobs" that are done for free by hobbyists around the world. Think of things like sports, painting/drawing, photography, web design, fixing cars, flying aeroplanes etc. etc. - when these became commercial, it's true that many made the transition from "amateur" to "professional", yet the hobbyists certainly didn't disappear altogether.

If anything, commercialisation has helped to legitimise these professions and there are now thousands of classes for learning sports or web design or photography. I think there will be ups and downs, and politics of course, but in the long run, there will still be plenty of free mods.

[Arthmoor]

Have to say, if someone showed up tomorrow telling me they were willing to pay me to make mods, I'd be all over it. That might just be the extended unemployment talking though. Bad economy + craphole state = I'll take just about anything at this point. Paid to mod? Hell yes. You may find others out there in similar situations who see getting paid to do something they already love doing is just as irresistible for some of the same reasons.

If one can seriously make thousands a month at it, that would be awfully difficult to say no to.

[Lanceor]

Yep, I was in that situation during the dotcom era.

What I do know is that web design started out as a hobby for me. I used to love creating websites back in the late 90's as it was a form of creative expression that could be done from home with minimal equipment. As soon as I started doing it for money though, it all changed and I no longer enjoyed it. Instead of putting my heart and creativity into websites, I had to create them the way customers wanted them leading to all sorts of bad designs that I'm ashamed to claim credit for.

At the end of the day though, getting food on the table is the top priority, so if modding gives sellable skills, then it opens up another option for us. Some of us will become and stay professional modders, some of us will dabble with paid modding work only to return it to hobby status (like my experience with web design) and some of us will refuse to get paid for it (like me now).

[ResolveThatChord]

One great thing about games with modding communities is that they're (hypothetically) infinite value for money: the community is continually expanding the game and adding more content. Once you have to pay for mods, that value will disappear. I wonder what will hold more weight with the publishers: that value to the customer, or the percentage from mod sales?

Regardless of whether Nexus stays free, if other sites start selling mods, I can imagine that most of the best and most professional mods won't be free. That will be a downright shame. What we have in these communities is wonderful, and only getting better. We've seen some great things made, and we want to keep seeing that. If this new system takes off, and it does fracture and ruin the community, then that will be one of the greatest tragedies of gaming history.

[Citrus]

Bethesda could do as Valve did with the Portal team or that guy from MINERVA: Metastasis (if you haven't played it and you own HL2, download it now. I'm dead serious) and try to hire the great talent they see in modders, provided the modders want to be a part of the videogames industry. It's a bit of wishful thinking, sure, but it's not impossible.

They themselves admitted to have drawn inspiration from Oblivion mods when they were making Skyrim so we're not that far away, I think. Modding is a way of becoming known in the industry and there are many successful cases of mods-turned commercial games.

The downside I see in being paid to mod is that you would essentially become another developer. I find it hard to believe they would allow one to have his or her own schedule, to make things the exact way one wants and so forth. Some of the liberty modding gives you would go away, if not most of it.

We can equate the number of download to the hypothetical profit the modder would have made if mods were paid but I'm not sure everyone of the downloaders would use the mod if it wasn't free so it doesn't automatically become a gold mine. Plus, can you imagine someone buying the retail game at $50, $60, plus the official DLC and expansions and on top of that paying for mods? The bill would go way up unless you would restrain yourself (considering the current amount of mods and the amount of mods people usually have installed).

They would come few and far between and one-man mod teams would practically disappear unless you were a jack of all trades. Bigger teams would have to be formed and then it would be like having a bunch of indie developers just to mod a game . That would be fun...

[HeyYou]

Bethesda could do as Valve did with the Portal team or that guy from MINERVA: Metastasis (if you haven't played it and you own HL2, download it now. I'm dead serious) and try to hire the great talent they see in modders, provided the modders want to be a part of the videogames industry. It's a bit of wishful thinking, sure, but it's not impossible.

They themselves admitted to have drawn inspiration from Oblivion mods when they were making Skyrim so we're not that far away, I think. Modding is a way of becoming known in the industry and there are many successful cases of mods-turned commercial games.

The downside I see in being paid to mod is that you would essentially become another developer. I find it hard to believe they would allow one to have his or her own schedule, to make things the exact way one wants and so forth. Some of the liberty modding gives you would go away, if not most of it.

We can equate the number of download to the hypothetical profit the modder would have made if mods were paid but I'm not sure everyone of the downloaders would use the mod if it wasn't free so it doesn't automatically become a gold mine. Plus, can you imagine someone buying the retail game at $50, $60, plus the official DLC and expansions and on top of that paying for mods? The bill would go way up unless you would restrain yourself (considering the current amount of mods and the amount of mods people usually have installed).

They would come few and far between and one-man mod teams would practically disappear unless you were a jack of all trades. Bigger teams would have to be formed and then it would be like having a bunch of indie developers just to mod a game . That would be fun...

You bring up a valid point. Who would get 'credit' for patch mods? I suspect that mods along the lines of FCOM would disappear completely.......

[Vouivre]

I can see it being good from the standpoint of the modder, you create something to be used. Some out there are incredible modelers, texturists okay.. artists in general. Some are scripting geniuses. Okay fine great, but isn't it illegal for someone to be making money off of someone else's intellectual properties unless you have a contract with them for such? Such as liscenses and so on. Something like that could make it harder for one like myself who has yet to have a huge mod to get my name known and be considered "worthy investment" for such. However on the side for those who download mods it's a hard price to pay.. you go from a 50 dollar game to a 5000+ dollar game because you downloaded these mods. For that kind of a investment? I'd be playing WoW, Everquest, Lineage ect ect.

And for me to be going into the game industry it makes my life difficult because lets face it. Some people have more time than i would, have free reign to make whatever they want and can create incredible things with no one looking over their shoulder having to meet deadlines. Those in the industry do. It's a double edged sword that needs to be addressed properly from all parties and all elements.. and I think we're heading into a new age where gaming could start sinking again before someone comes up with something so incredible that we're all left in awe and a new era begins.

[lonewolf_kai]

Not likely anytime in the near future. Currently, beth games are founded on 'freely moddable, free mods'. I don't see that changing soon.

I dunno HY. It's being done now with some companies, ones that are usually the forerunners to industry and companies quicly follow. If Beth doesn't do it as what is being predicted, I can see them doing something like a combination of both. Modders will have the option to sell their mods through them, or you can freely publish them. Predictions are often sketchy and just fizzle away though, but most of the gaming forecasts that I've read have all been accurate to a pinpoint.

Let's also not forget our history here. If you remember correctly, many, many gamers said they would never EVER pay to play a game online. Look at the MMOs now. It's a huge profit center. Even the MMOs that no longer exist made a huge chunk of gold. Heck, I was one of those gamers who said that I wouldn't ever play one, and here I spent over 10+ years on a couple MMOs.

Edited September 9, 2011 by lonewolf_kai

[DarkRider]

I wouldn't look for this trend to be all consuming for our community anytime soon. There are several major hurdles standing between where we are today and where the game/mod industry is trending (in theory) in regards to paid mods and apps.

For starters, collaboration gets rather confounded when you start adding in the money factor, which is likely why in paid app situations you see solo developers or small (usually 2-member) development partnerships. Here now, we freely collaborate, members willing to "help out" and contribute a texture here, a mesh there, a bit of code. What happens to free collaboration when the project leader is getting paid? Will people only collaborate for X percentage of the profits per sale? Who will draft up the agreements? Who will enforce those agreements if the collaborators aren't paid? What if the product doesn't sell? Is the designer still obligated to pay the collaborators for their work? Paid mods will most likely bring an end to most major collaborations unless those collaborations are done as freeware.

Another issue is consumer satisfaction. We have all seen those mods that just don't deliver and for now we simply uninstall maybe leave a comment about how it's not what's advertised or bugged/broken, poorly created. With paid apps, in an electronic environment (like XBox live or iPhone's App store for example) it's a no refund zone. Otherwise people could just demand a refund and keep the software. So what happens with these mods people pay for and they end up being garbage? Will we see an upsurge is poorly crafted mods by modders with limited skills (maybe because they don't want to pay collaborator ) flooding the system all in hopes of eating up some of that money pie before they get pulled from the server? Count on it. And few will be pulled from the server because quality is subjective anyway.

I think paid mods will change the modworld exponentially, in some good and not so good ways. It will take many of those with serious skills out of the hobbyist genre and into the world of freelance development. Modders will likely not stand behind their IDs but behind small company titles in hopes of creating a more professional public front. With paid mods we will likely see mods on consoles as well, as once microsoft has a money source they can cut from they will open the door to their market. Large sites like Nexus will have enough clout by way of income and member base to broker an in on the front lines while smaller sites like TESA, ORE, and the like will probably take on a independent guild presence, still collaborating and sharing as we always have regardless. Even with more modders developing independently, they will still need a safe harbor to socialize, and that's what we are.

Todd Howard was quoted recently as saying they've been in talks with Microsoft about mods on Xbox Live and I think that may likely be the arena where you will see ES paid mods first appear as it's easier to control. Such a thing would impact us very little.

It should be pointed out that paid mods and free mods are not mutually exclusive though; paid modding does not mean the death of free modding. Many paid apps have free "lite" versions, there are plenty of free apps released by new studios trying to make a name. Releasing a paid app on XBox live and releasing the same app free online for PC users is another route. I would encourage modders to start fleshing out their skill sets now though, enough to work independently in the future. Free collaborators can be hard to count on even at the best of times, so we've always encouraged new modders to be prepared to go it alone. I think that will likely just be more true in the future.

I'm not against the idea of paid mods. I've worked on RST for the last 4 years. Most weeks, especially in the beginning, I was spending from 40-80 hours a week in the CS or GIMP. We calculated it out once and with my labor, and the labor of my collaborators, and the various financial investments I've made to promote my product, RST is worth about $600,000 USD. Would I like to recoup some of that for myself and those who have been with me for years? Absolutely. A mod like RST could go for $10-20 a download like a DLC in the paid market, it would be nice to give some of that back to my family. It also opens up the gaming industry to these new freelance developers to make a living without being part of an actual studio.

Don't look for it to be simple though, we won't ever see mod for straight profit. A company like Bethsoft is not going to hand us a free tool and let us reap the money. Modders will likely have to pay for the toolkit in the future, and likely have to pay a freelance developer licensing to weed out the vultures regardless of sales, in addition to paying out a percentage of each sale to the developer and the gateway.

Just my compiled as succinctly as possible at the moment.

[Hanaisse]

Nobody has said it yet, so I will. Uh, you want me to spend my money on a mod?

Simply... no.

No way, no how. I'll enjoy the vanilla game, thank you very much. I have better uses for my money.

[Citrus]

@DarkRider: I was thinking the exact same thing you mentioned near the end of your post: if paid mods came to existence, the CS, or any other SDK, would no longer be free. There could be "lite" versions to make the "lite" mods you talked about but that was it. Any hobbyist that wants to do something bigger would have to pay and that would lead to what we discussed before: teams would be formed and your hobby would either cease to exist or be turned into profit (a job of sorts).

The problem with these "lite" mods is that you would only get the less complex mods, the ones that can be done for free and miss out on the big ones that would surely be commercialised. It would feel like you got the lesser version and if the commercial mods would get the "lite" versions, It would be some kind of trial version. It would feel like WinRAR forever

Then again, if mods turned commercial the way you mentioned, that could make developers forget about DLC or expansions and let the community take care of it. They'd get their share, which wouldn't be small, I'm sure, and everyone would be happy. That, or we'd get thousands of Horse Armor clones...

It's a perfectly understandable situation the one you illustrated with RST. Such a large work, even though it came from your free time (and perhaps sometime not so free), costed a lot of money and seeing some of the costs being covered is and interesting prospect.

[DaMage]

You know what I would like to see...

PC modding staying as it is, free to play and mod for. However, I would love to see Bethesda take some the big completely finished and bugfree mods and offer to pay the modder/s who developed them in order to port thme to Xbox360 and PS3. It would be a all round win-win. Big mods get some money back, consolers get the good mods, and Bethesda gets to act as a quality evaluator so that the newbie modders arent making money on broken mods.

The only problem left in this is that there might be arguement in team over who gets what money.....chucking money into the mix is a fast way to break up teams.

[DarkWarrior]

There are several things that I'm seeing here with the issue, as I see both sides of the story. I can see the positive in that a modder is compensated for his or her blood and sweat, and countless hours spent away from friends and family to pursue a hobby. In a sense Gmod is attempting to mimic Apple's business move in the sense of running an App store, something that is the current fad in computing. In a sense it shows the inability on Gmod's part to be innovative in a business sense; the site is copying someone else's business plan and failing to do their own thing. Will it fly? I don't think so. Even if it does get off the ground, I don't see it going far for several reasons.

The biggest reason is this: When I mod, my alternate personality and I don't give two flying flips about the money. I mod because it is what I enjoy doing. I mod everything, I mod computers, games, software, my car, nerf guns, etc. I take things apart, and I see how they work. I can't help it, it's what I do. I am an engineer both by birth and by training: I build things, I modify things, I fix things, and I bring things back from the dead. Heck, I have an awesome job in IT in where I get paid to do some of these things. But would I commercialize the modding communities, absolutely not because I know the people who are behind these communities don't do it for the money, they do it because it's what they love doing. Pure love of a job will always produce a superior product. It is the reason why I hate mass production, as things that are mass produced don't have the touch of a craftsman who loves what he or she does.

Commercializing the modding community would only break this spirit of free modding.

Another reason is the people that commercialization would attract. Already there are a number of people around, especially at the Neuxs, who have no appreciation for the work that modders do. Paid-for mods will invite those type of people who are never satisfied with what they buy or what service they receive, and will demand support and/or their money back if they don't like what they have. I had to deal with those people when I worked with Circuit City just before it went out of business, and those were the type of people that would make folks hate their jobs. And they are also the type that destroy free modding communities.

Basically, the long and the short of it is that I don't see a paid-for modding community working simply because of the people, and it's the people who in the end make the game successful.

Edited September 12, 2011 by DarkWarrior

[The Vyper]

I am strongly against paying/being paid for mods for many of the reasons already stated. A craftsman who rafts for enjoyment will almost always produce a superior product to one who does it for money. You have only to look at the mod community to see what I mean: Look at Ancient Towers by WillieSea. Look at Arthmoor's villages, WhoGuru's homes & Meo's resources. Then, of course, there's things like RST, KotN: Revelations and Nehrim. Things like that would not be produced by modders looking for a quick buck.

Another problem with paid for community mods is the ESRB (and similar organizations). What happens when a third party mod adds content that could change the game's rating (i.e. making something like Deadly Reflex for a T rated game)? Would they:

1) Change the rating for every copy of the game whether it uses that mod or not? ( "hot coffee" anyone?)

2) Prohibit the upload entirely? (Incoming freedom of expression protest!)

3) Prohibit the creation of content that would conflict the the game's rating? (Limits on creativity? NOOOOOO!)

4) Create a new rating specifically for modded games? (Might prevent non-gamer customers from buying it, once the special rating is explained. Bad.)

All in all, I think the whole idea is just plain BAD! What's next? Charging people to read fan fiction?

[Mavor]

I registered just to add... as a mod developer myself, I don't see why both free and premium cannot live in the same space. Modders are people who have to pay for bills to, and being able to free ourselves from a daily 9-5 job so that we can spend that time developing mods instead would be a win/win for the gamers, the game company itself, and of course the modders. Sure, you won't really have the shared spirit of todays free-for-everything community... but i'm sure between decently sized mods it will be possible to offer royalties between eachother to package mods together. Not to mention that if someone was to rip off my work now, even though it is free, I would still be pretty angry. At least if I can charge for my creations via a platform, that platform will probably also include some sort of deterrence to other's directly ripping off the code, and also provides a legal avenue to take.

Plus, if you look at the various app stores around, there are plenty of decent free things... personally I would be happy to split my mod into two branches - a paid one that goes towards supporting my food/rent, and another that is free (with some missing features) - so that everyone benefits even if they don't have any money.

Not to mention that micropayments will be easily created as well... don't tell me that someone is poor enough that they can't spare $0.50 for 10 hours or more of quality gameplay from my mod. (I mean for christs sake... a single coffee at Starbucks is like.. $6 or more? You could buy twenty mods at that price.. If you consider how much value people will get out of a well-designed mod that they only have to pay like $0.50 or $1.00 for, I think you would agree that it's a much better use of money then supporting some massive multi-national corporation trying to extort money out of you via their coffee.

Instead of looking at this issue as in "why should I pay for something that has always been free?", it's better to think of it like "Why don't I pay $1 to support someone who cares about bringing quality entertainment to my life, and who is trying to make a fair living from it?".

[_echo]

Instead of looking at this issue as in "why should I pay for something that has always been free?", it's better to think of it like "Why don't I pay $1 to support someone who cares about bringing quality entertainment to my life, and who is trying to make a fair living from it?".

Because its always been in poor taste to charge money for mods. Donations are completely different. So it's not "Why don't I pay $1.", its "I have to pay $1."

Modding isn't a 9-5 job, nor should it be. If you want to make money making game content, then become a game developer.

People making programs for the iphone and such and charging 99 cents for it are doing it in part for the money. They are developers, that is their job.

[The Vyper]

Modders are people who have to pay for bills to, and being able to free ourselves from a daily 9-5 job so that we can spend that time developing mods instead would be a win/win for the gamers, the game company itself, and of course the modders.

I do have to pay bills and I work two jobs to do it. I get paid $16/hour at one (where I get 30-40 hours/week) and $19.50/hour at the other (where I get 20-35 hours/week depending on the time of year and the amount of volume we're dealing with). I need both jobs to make ends meet and in no way could getting paid for modding make up for either one of these jobs (let alone both). Money for mods would also ruin the collaboration of the community, since other modders would be competitors. Likewise, there would no longer be free resources, such as Oblivion Mod Manager, Wrye Bash, NifSkope, etc. and modding in general would greatly suffer as a result. Plus, there would be far fewer really deep, detailed mods (such as Reclaiming Sancre Tor, Servant of the Dawn, Ruined Tail's Tale, The Lost Spires, Midas Magic, Elsweyr etc.) because most "modders" would want to slap something together really fast to make a quick buck instead of spending years on a single release. All-in-all, money for mods is one of the worst ideas in the long, sad history of bad ideas (as far as gaming goes).

[Mavor]

I cannot really see why you folks think that coding for a platform like the iPhone or android is somehow different from spending that time coding for a "game platform" as a mod instead. There is really no difference. I put time into the code to make something unique that you then enjoy and pay me money for.

Also, you don't have to pay, you can go make your own mod, or DL a free mod. I think it may be better to look at things positively and see that having paid mods will give you much more selection, mods that actually finish development (instead of breaking apart halfway through), and being able to follow modders and support them.