17 replies to this topic

[dubious]

I want to create a small 'poster' that looks like one of those brass name plates you see in Victorian era movies outside 'posh' offices (though not necessarily 'brass'). But I want to have it change if the player looks at it long enough. Probably will have to use an 'overlay' approach.

The core idea is that it is a clandestine place marker, afixed to the corner of building like a corner stone. At first glance it consists of just some apparent scratches, forming essentially the corners and minimal sketchy, unconnected lines outlining different features the face of a dragon on opposite sides. Sort of along the lines of:

 ^ - 
     o
   |
 (

To the casual glance it shouldn't even appear to be a face. If the player looks at it for a period of time I intend to have a script replace the base 'sketchy scratches' image with a more complete outline, to be followed eventually by a brief flash of the full visage. Which will then revert to the 'scratches' form. I'm thinking that there might be versions of the final image (or maybe just the intermedate image) with the eyes looking in each of the 8 cardinal compass points to indicate direction.

I have found a good detailed image of a Chinese dragon face from a download site, but the authorship is murky and I would rather have it be used as the inspiration for an original work I can get clear permission to use.

Hoping someone might find this idea interesting enough to tackle. (As should be obvious from above, I am not artistic.)

-Dubious-

Edited by dubious, 18 April 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Lanceor]

My understanding is that you want the poster to slowly transform in front of the player? Something like how the writing started appearing on the One Ring after Gandalf threw it in the fire? If that is the case, I think an animated texture would be the best way to make it, rather than using a script to overlay multiple layers. I've never created one, but I'd probably begin by analysing the mesh for a torch flame in NifSkope and see if I can resize it and swap in my own images instead of the images of the flames.

If I've misunderstood what you want to do, perhaps some rough sketches showing how your poster would look at various key frames would help any prospective artists here.

[dubious]

My understanding is that you want the poster to slowly transform in front of the player? Something like how the writing started appearing on the One Ring after Gandalf threw it in the fire? If that is the case, I think an animated texture would be the best way to make it, rather than using a script to overlay multiple layers. I've never created one, but I'd probably begin by analysing the mesh for a torch flame in NifSkope and see if I can resize it and swap in my own images instead of the images of the flames.

If I've misunderstood what you want to do, perhaps some rough sketches showing how your poster would look at various key frames would help any prospective artists here.

Actually, I had considered that but decided against it as being too obvious. (This is a SECRET marker.) The poster/marker is a clue part of a puzzle quest, a 'yes you are in the correct general vicinity' marker. (I want to avoid quest markers, except perhaps to tag the city or general geographical area or whatever.) My thoughts are currently along the lines of 'scratches', once the player starts looking a timer will wait minute or so, then display the 'very rough outline', pause a much shorter period (perhaps 8-10 seconds), then full image for only long enough to register it's there (practically subliminal) and back to 'scratches'. Timing will have to be determined by testing. So only three 'posters' should do it. But that is not carved in stone. I know it would be easier to just use two and 'swap parent'. But I want that initial 'what just happened' reaction. The player may need to watch it a couple of times to make out the direction the eyes are pointing. (I was inspired by the practicing Arena boxers script.)

There are going to be about 8-10 of these markers and quests.

And thanks for the question. It's always tricky conveying what you see in your mind so others get the same idea.

-Dubious-

Edited by dubious, 18 April 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[Hanaisse]

Interesting. I'm wondering how you'll know the player is "looking" at it.

Anyway, I'm a little bored, I'll take up the challenge. As long as there's an existing graphic to work from it shouldn't be too hard to make three samples of it.

[Lanceor]

Animated meshes can have more than one animation group and scripting could be used to play a particular animation. For example, the gates you see in ruined fortresses have an "open" and "close" animation group. The same can be done for animated textures.

[dubious]

Interesting. I'm wondering how you'll know the player is "looking" at it.

Anyway, I'm a little bored, I'll take up the challenge. As long as there's an existing graphic to work from it shouldn't be too hard to make three samples of it.

Great, and thanks. I'll PM you the graphic I found. (Assuming I figure out how to do that here.)

-Dubious-

[dubious]

Animated meshes can have more than one animation group and scripting could be used to play a particular animation. For example, the gates you see in ruined fortresses have an "open" and "close" animation group. The same can be done for animated textures.

THAT's interesting. I'll bear it in mind.

As Hanaisse pointed, determining when the player is looking at my poster is something I need to pin down. I was thinking it would be activated by the same technique as a trap trigger. Can you point me to a good tutorial for that, or perhaps you have an alternative suggestion? It could probably simply run whenever the player was in view (LOS) but I would prefer to minimize the processing to only when needed.

-Dubious-

[InsanitySorrow]

If you're willing to use OBSE you can use the GetCrosshairRef function to see if the player is looking at the poster.

[dubious]

If you're willing to use OBSE you can use the GetCrosshairRef function to see if the player is looking at the poster.

Aha! Yes, I have already used OBSE for other scripts, so that function should do nicely. Thanks for the pointer.

-Dubious-

[Hanaisse]

I'm starting to lean toward Lance on the animated texture. I think it will provide a much better fading in of the graphic than a quick switch. Of course, you could try it both ways.
Trigger zones would just know the Player is standing there, but he could be looking in the opposite direction, so there's that con for that route.

(To send me the graphic, create a PM, at the bottom click on Use Full Editor, write it up then at the bottom again there is a spot to attach files. Choose the file then don't forget to click on "attach file".)
Nevermind, got your email.

Edited by Hanaisse, 19 April 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[dubious]

I'm starting to lean toward Lance on the animated texture. I think it will provide a much better fading in of the graphic than a quick switch. Of course, you could try it both ways.
Trigger zones would just know the Player is standing there, but he could be looking in the opposite direction, so there's that con for that route.

I expect I will try it both ways. But not only have I never done any animations of any kind, I've only tried changing a texture in Nifscope. So there is a learning curve to get through. But since Lanceor provided the pointer to the tutorial, I'll take a stab at it. It's all about which produces the better desired effect.

Got some more script testing to do first.

-Dubious-

[Hanaisse]

I'm assuming you want a transparent background? Or ... ?
And are we keeping the fu man chu mustache?

[dubious]

I'm assuming you want a transparent background? Or ... ?
And are we keeping the fu man chu mustache?

'Fu manchu mustache'? I presume you are referring to the 'whiskers'? Yes, they are characteristic of Chinese Dragons and I feel fully appropriate for the Akaviri. I think of them as prehensile 'hands' rather than 'feelers' or mere 'hair', if that helps. You can even add a couple of 'feeler' types if you like.

As for the transparent background, I'm not sure what would work best. Transparent will let the marker fit over any background color (I expect), but will it cause us to lose the ' artwork' by blending into a dark background like a wooden wall or stone too much? I'm especially concerned about this for the initial 'scratches' image. Won't using a specific 'standard metal' background color for the 'marker' make your job easier? Dull bronze or unpolished brass for instance? Even duller colors if the contrast is sufficient, though bear in mind these are supposed to be old and neglected. (Something appropriate for Blood & Mud's Bravil I should think.) If we can separate the image from the 'surface' it will be 'etched into', then definitely transparent. I'm willing to be guided by your experience and preference. I just don't know what is possible to make an informed choice.

-Dubious-

Edited by dubious, 20 April 2012 - 07:33 AM.

[Hanaisse]

Ok, I was wondering how visible you wanted this, if it was going to show up on the stone or wooden wall itself I would make it transparent. If you want it on a plaque, that's do-able too.
The artwork itself I was working towards just a plain black sketch so it will show up on just about anything. I'll make up several examples for you to look at.

[Hanaisse]

Here's the result of what I see as the "final complete" picture (with no background done yet). I just want to get your opinion on the dragon before I continue. Is it too detailed? Not enough detail?

[dubious]

Here's the result of what I see as the "final complete" picture (with no background done yet). I just want to get your opinion on the dragon before I continue. Is it too detailed? Not enough detail?

Excellent! Spot on. That will do nicely for the final image.
[Edit: And since I see there has been some interest, here is the link to the original source image this was inspired by, so people can appreciate what a nice job it is: LAIR2000. The site has a large collection of dragon images of all styles.]

For the 'intermediate' image I would think we just want the outline, just enough to tell where the nose and mouth are. And both eyes to include the pupils because I want to begin using them as directional indicators in that image.

For the 'scratches' image, just suggestive elements from opposite parts of the face such as the the tip of one ear, tip of the horn on the opposite side, the pupil of one eye (looking straight out) and the eyebrow of the other, etc. Just enough for someone who is spending some time trying to puzzle it out to get an imaginative impression before we show them the intermediate image. If you want to do some of the 'filling in' images for the animated version, go ahead. But only what you feel like doing. If need be I expect I can fake it from the intermediate and final images.

And needless to say you will get full credit in the mod.

-Dubious-

Edited by dubious, 20 April 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[Hanaisse]

Alright, here what all three images look like;



And also three background choices; bronze, metal and wood.



I'm PM'ing you all of them so you can decide.
They're modeled on blankcanvas02.nif, which, I think, is a good stiff static for them. The poster nif is too thin.

[dubious]

Alright, here what all three images look like;

They are GREAT! I love 'em. And all three backgrounds. I'll have to find places to use them all.

The canvas NIF is perfect, because I had already decided these are probably better as 'paintings', since I don't want them to be opened like books or the 'wanted posters'.

I replied in more detail to your PM, but did want any lurkers to know how pleased I am with your work. I'm going to test my script with these and then make a determination about animation. I'm already leaning towards it for the transition from image1 to image2, because that will occur over a longish period of time, on the order of a minute. But some testing is in order first.

-Dubious-