Looking for feedback and possible collaboration

[Balok]

I posted this in the Voice Actors forum (I didn't see this one) and they suggested I post here, so:

I'm currently building a mod for Skyrim called "Helgen Rebuilt". Ultimately, it will do just as the title implies - rebuild the destroyed settlement back into a thriving community. But the main thing I desire from this mod is to tell a great story. My vision is really to have an interactive screenplay of sorts that the player participates in. At its core it's a story of two old friends, one who has had tremendous loss and grief, and the other wanting to help him regain honor and dignity back in his life. Together, with the players help, they will rebuild the town and restore hope and inspiration in the grieving mans life. In the end, one will die by giving his life to save the other. (That's the short version, I'll post the long version below.)

So what I'm looking for is guidance and feedback throughout the writing process and even help writing the actual story and dialog of anyone so chooses. Really just experienced storytellers and/or writers to bounce ideas off of who can pick apart my story, offer ideas and critique, and honestly tell me if something is lame or if something is good. After all, we're basically writing a screenplay that we take and implement into the game via the CK, right? I'm at a point right now where I need to get the story pretty much written in order to know how to implement the rest of the stuff in the CK. I can't built it if I don't know where it's going.

Cast

Marcus Jannus - Main character & quest giver.

Valerius Tiberius Artoria - ("Val" for short) Main character, quasi-bandit leader and possible short term companion.

Korst - Val's right-hand man and Captain of the Bandit Guard if player chooses Independent Helgen. (more below)

Cienna Jervette - Armor & weapons dealer and all around kickass Brteon hottie! Possible companion and wife?

Balfring Firescale - Smitty

Fjord the Nord - Innkeeper (This will be a large side quest, more on that later)

Alchemy shop - probably an Argonian

General Store - kitty cat (Khajiit)?

Backstory

Both Valerius and Marcus were Captains in the Imperial Army and served under Titus Mede II during the Great War - most notably The Battle of Red Ring. Valerius had planned to sneak his family out of Cyrodiil and away from danger, but the Dominion invasion was swift and brutal, and his defenseless wife, son and daughter were all murdered by the Dominion forces when the Imperial Army retreated to Skyrim to regroup. After they took the city back for the Empire, in his grief, Val became ruthless and obsessed with killing any and all Aldmeri he could find, and by any means available. After the Battle of Red Ring, but while still serving in the Legion, Val decided to disobey strict orders and begin a series of covert assassinations of Aldmeri officials and officers. Often taking several of his most trusted soldiers with him (Korst was one of them), and vowing to never recognize the White Gold Concordat he continued his brutal assaults for a few months. As a result of his actions and to appease certain Aldmeri officials, Val was betrayed, captured, given a dishonorable discharge from the Legion and stripped of his titles and any benefits he would ever receive for his service. He was basically ostracized and publicly ridiculed by the Aldmeri for his actions and thrown into a Legion prison. But the Aldmeri feared executing him as they didn’t want to make a martyr out of him and possibly incite more insurrection, so they simply forced the Empire to lock him and his handful of men away forever to hopefully be forgotten.

However, after a period of time, resentment against the Aldmeri and the Concordat grew and Marcus also became disillusioned with his own leadership - all the way up to Titus Mede II. He simply could not accept the concessions that were being made to the Aldmeri. So, Marcus decided to retire from his service in the Legion as he wasn’t getting any younger. But before he retired, and unknown to Valerius, Marcus planned a means of escape for his old friend and some his men. Valerius had saved Marcus’ life during The Battle of Red Ring, and Marcus never forgot what his old friend had done for him. Marcus’ years of service had accumulated him numerous favors throughout the ranks of the Legion. And on a dark, stormy night he was able to get one of his former soldiers, now a Lieutenant over the city prison, to quietly sneak the men out through an old, long forgotten passage out of the city. (The same one Jean-Luc Picard used in Oblivion )

Marcus and Val never actually saw one another during this escape, and Val had no idea whatsoever who and why someone helped him escape. But even though he had a new lease on life, his bitterness and hatred over the murder of his family still haunted him. And also knowing that he could not be seen in Cyrodiil again, he and his handful of men snuck their way into Skyrim. The years passed, and while there wasn’t necessarily a definitive hierarchy in their faction, Valerius became a quasi-leader of a group of Bandits he and his men helped form. Recognizing a prime opportunity to get themselves a new fort, they sprang into action after hearing of Helgen’s destruction and took over the place.

Meahwhile, Marcus who was still in what was left Cyrodiil, also heard rumors of a terrible dragon attack and that Helgen was indeed destroyed. The trading business he started after he retired had suffered for several years, and he longed to return to his childhood home. He felt the people in Skyrim – especially Helgen – needed him more than ever right now, so he left for Falkreath. Upon arriving there he heard the story of an individual who survived the attack and sent messengers to get word to this person to meet him at the Dead Man's Drink. About the same time, Marcus also learned that someone only known as “Val†was heading up a group of bandits who had taken over the fort after Alduin’s attack.

Because the player had “inside†knowledge of the keep and Helgen in general, Marcus needs the player to return to Helgen and try to find out if this bandit leader is in fact his old friend Valerius as he suspects. If It is in fact his old friend Valerius, try to negotiate a truce with him on his behalf. Player will need to tell Val of Marcus’ plans to rebuild the town, and that he needs a partner and Captain of the Guard and that Marcus wants to meet with Val to discuss the matter. Marcus gives the player an embroidered handkerchief that belonged to Val's wife to show him he wants to meet in peace. Upon seeing the handkerchief that he had given to his wife so many years ago, Val is deeply touched and agrees to meet with Marcus. Player returns to Falkreath and escorts Marcus to the Helgen keep for their reunion.

I think the backstory is fairly solid, but I'm looking for it to be picked apart and find holes in it, and to modify any parts that require too much suspension of disbelief to make sense. I had originally thought about giving the player the option of just killing Val and all his men at the fort, but I'm second guessing that option now. I mean, this IS my story, and if the player kills him, it then becomes a simple exercise of fetches and so forth to rebuild the town. I don't really want to lose my whole story like that. (This is sort of the foundation for Act 1 - http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/writing-act-i-of-your-screenplay.html)

Edited May 20, 2012 by Balok

[Vereta]

Are you sure you want to label them as bandits? Bandits burn, murder, pillage, etc. For an ex-soldier and, from what I can tell, an honorable man Valerius doesn't seem the type to lead that sort of group. Perhaps he's heading what he would call a rebellion against the Aldmeri but what an outsider would call a ragtag group of upstarts? As for the handkerchief, how about his wife's wedding ring instead? There's a lot of potential for your story to grow passed what you have. For example, what if the Aldmeri dispatched a small group of agents to silence Valerius and his group and when the player enters the tower the Almderi are in the process of getting rid of them. When the player reaches Valerius after fighting through the Aldmeri, perhaps even Valerius' group with the right incentive, he seems to have lost his will to live after having lost everything to the Aldmeri and is given new purpose by Marcus' proposal. My two cents.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Vereta

[Balok]

Are you sure you want to label them as bandits? Bandits burn, murder, pillage, etc. For an ex-soldier and, from what I can tell, an honorable man Valerius doesn't seem the type to lead that sort of group. Perhaps he's heading what he would call a rebellion against the Aldmeri but what an outsider would call a ragtag group of upstarts? As for the handkerchief, how about his wife's wedding ring instead? There's a lot of potential for your story to grow passed what you have. For example, what if the Aldmeri dispatched a small group of agents to silence Valerius and his group and when the player enters the tower the Almderi are in the process of getting rid of them. When the player reaches Valerius after fighting through the Aldmeri, perhaps even Valerius' group with the right incentive, he seems to have lost his will to live after having lost everything to the Aldmeri and is given new purpose by Marcus' proposal. My two cents.

Excellent suggestions, and you’re exactly right. Whether they’re true “bandits†or not is something I’ve AGONIZED over a lot. The main reason for them being bandits is because in the vanilla game, that’s who takes over the fort after it is destroyed. I already have it in some of my dialog that Valerius explains that they have basically been ostracized by the normal bandits because they felt he was too much of a nice guy or whatever. Valerius didn’t like the bandit barbarians and murderers etc, But I dunno, even that seems a little lame to me, and it’s only a first draft of dialog, so nothing is set in stone at this point.

So, instead of being bandits, having them be an underground group of Thalmor hating assasins might actually be a little more believable. The only problem I see is explaining how they took over the fort from the bandits that are actually in the game. I suppose I could place several dead bandits all around the courtyard and in the keep to simulate that they came in, wiped the bandits out and took the fort for themselves?

And the whole Thalmor thing actually ties directly into my 3rd act where I mentioned above that either Valerius or Marcus would give their life for the other. My plan was to have Valerius kidnapped by the Thalmor and taken to a dungeon deep underground to be tortured and whatnot. The player would go with Marcus and Korst to rescue him where the Thalmor boss would kill Marcus in the battle, but this would allow the player to free Valerius, and I want to script a touching death scene where they say their farewells as Marcus dies. And with more and more Thalmor in Skyrim, it makes sense that Valerius and his group would be there too. (one of my main themes will definitely be anti-Thalmor, so Thalmor supporters probably won't like my mod in some parts, lol.)

How does all of that sound? Believable and logical?

Oh, re: the handkerchief, that was a little homage of sorts to Braveheart, but I could easily make it a wedding ring.

Please keep suggestions coming, let's get this thing written!

Edited May 21, 2012 by Balok

[DarkRider]

You could just disable the bandits so they never spawn after Helgen is destroyed, then you don't need to account for any bandits in your storyline. Plus bandits often loot and move on, you wouldn't really even have to explain their disappearance or presence at all.

[Balok]

You could just disable the bandits so they never spawn after Helgen is destroyed, then you don't need to account for any bandits in your storyline. Plus bandits often loot and move on, you wouldn't really even have to explain their disappearance or presence at all.

Yes, I am already disabling that marker, I think it’s the PostHelgenEncounterMaker they’re attached to which IIRC is enabled when the player enters Whiterun the first time. But, many people will be deep into their games before they install my mod and those bandits will have been there for a while most likely. And I’m pretty anal about things fitting properly in the existing world, lol. So one of my weaknesses I guess is feeling the need to have logical reasons for stuff to happen, especially if I’m altering vanilla content. So even though it’s a small thing, the OCD part of me needs it explained, lol. (I don’t know if that makes sense.)

Thanks for the feedback!

[DarkRider]

Aye I get that, that's why I pointed out that bandit factions would move on, so even if most folks have encountered them before I don't think anyone will question where the bandits went. There's assumption that's going to cover you; people will assume, the bandits left or your guys cleared them out, either way you don't have to spell that out. My quest mod for Oblivion restored a vanilla location, I never had to explain where the skeletons and ghosts went, it's just implied by their absence. So, my point was, don't worry about it, if you have it disabled, that's enough. The player will fill that blank themselves.

[Balok]

don't worry about it, if you have it disabled, that's enough. The player will fill that blank themselves.

10-4 on that, thanks again.

So, that pretty much covers the beginning of my story, and so far, in terms of my actual quest completed in the CK, I have an initial timer to run that checks if the main quest “Unbound†has been completed. (This is for users of any Alt. Start mods)

Once that quest is completed, a timer runs that enables Marcus’ trusted servant “Patsy†who has made it to The Drunken Huntsman from Cyrodiil. His job is to find the player and deliver a note from Marcus and 250 gold as a gesture of good will. (I don’t know if I will actually use the full blown courier quest or not. My scripting skills may not be up to that task so I may just make the player go to him to get the note.) Anyway, this starts the last part of my post above where the player goes to talk to Marcus and then goes to see val.

As I said above, I’m REALLY torn between giving the player the option to kill Valerius and his men but still continue the quest with Marcus, or basically making Valerius essential. I guess it just don’t make sense to me that Marcus would still want the player to help him if that player had killed his friend from long ago. So, I’m kind of stuck on this decision for now. But I can still build most of the rest as if he were alive, and leave slots open for extra stages and objectives later on to be able to add alternate scenarios. I'd like some feedback on the option to Kill Valerius if you guys have any thoughts on that issue please.

Next, after you escort Marcus to Helgen Keep and a brief reunion scene between the two men, Marcus will thank the player for his help, give him/her 250 or so in gold, and ask if they mind leaving he and Valerius alone for a while to catch up on their lives, and to plan what to do next. The player can come back the next day for more work if they want to. When the player returns to Marcus and Valerius, I'm probably going to have another brief scene between all 3 where the player get's instructions to go find Korst who took a small group of men to scope out The sightless Pit but haven't returned. Basically the Falmer kicked their ass and now Korst is stuck in there. This is just a little side mission I thought would be fun to add some combat in at this point. (Up to now it's been all dialog and story.)

After returning with Korst, I will have another scene where the player, Marcus and Valerius discuss the possibility of forming an alliance with either the Legion or Stormcloaks, as they could provide additional guards to help protect the town during the rebuilding process. Or, they could simply recruit more guards from around Skyrim, and have the town remain entirely Independent of the two other factions. (Personally, Independence is my fave choice.) As a requirement to choose the Legion or Stormcloaks, the player must already be a member of that faction to be a valid choice in the dialog. They will have the opportunity to exit the dialog, go join their faction of choice and come back and make a decision. But once that decision has been made, there's no turning back.

The independent path is the easiest to build, as all I really have to do is add some more NPC's and maybe have a little favor type quest for them to join the player, and they can follow the player back to the fort.

For the Legion affiliation, that's also pretty easy, and both Val and Marcus were soldiers, so Marcus could just say he still has a few connections, and to go somewhere and talk to one of his old colleagues still in the Legion and tell them Marcus sent you to get help. As incentive for the Legion, it makes sense since it was once a Legion fort that they would want it back. I'd probably throw in another favor type quest here as well.

And for the Stormcloak alignment it's pretty simple too. They surely would want it in their possession because of it's strategic value, and since the Falkreath Hold can actually change hands to the Stormcloaks during the civil war, that makes it fit well in the vanilla game.

The next part will begin the actual clean up and rebuilding after the new guards are in place.

How's this sounding so far?

[Balok]

Well, this thread seems to be going no where fast, lol, but what the hell, I thought I'd post some more info in the hopes I might get a little feedback.

So, researching some lore I came up with a couple of good prospects for a name for my new faction. I really want this to be very lore friendly, so here’s what I’ve found. Basically after the White-Gold Concordat was signed:

“Hammerfell, however, refused to accept the White-Gold Concordat, being unwilling to concede defeat and the loss of so much of their territory. Titus II was forced to officially renounce Hammerfell as an Imperial province in order to preserve the hard-won peace treaty. The Redguards, understandably, looked on this as a betrayal. In this, the Thalmor certainly achieved one of their long-term goals by sowing lasting bitterness between Hammerfell and the Empire.†And “In the end, the heroic Redguards fought the Aldmeri Dominion to a standstill, although the war lasted for five more years and left southern Hammerfell devastated. The Redguards say that this proves that the White-Gold Concordat was unnecessary, and that if Titus II had kept his nerve, the Aldmeri could have been truly defeated by the combined forces of Hammerfell and the rest of the Empire. The truth of that assertion can, of course, never be known. But the Redguards should not forget the great sacrifice of Imperial blood - Breton, Nord, and Cyrodilic - at the Battle of the Red Ring that weakened the Dominion enough to allow the eventual Second Treaty of Stros M'kai in 4E 180 and the withdrawal of Aldmeri forces from Hammerfell.â€

So I could add into my backstory for Valerius that after he escaped from prison, he and his men escaped to Hammerfell and joined the Redguard in their war with the Thalmor. After the Treaty of Stros M'kai, Valerius and his men once again went underground, but by this time they had acquired a few Redguard allies who joined in their covert operations. It seems to me that Redguards would be the obvious choice of ally for anyone wanting to form an underground resistance to the Thalmor.

Now, looking through Redguard history, I found this:

“Hunding (one of their great ancestors) devised a plan of seven battles leading the Armies of Hira further and further into the wilderness to the foot of Hattu, where the final battle could be fought. Hunding called his plan the "Hammer and the Anvil". With each battle Hunding's Singers would further learn his strategies and tactics, grow strong in the use of the Shehai, and be ready to defeat their opponents in the seventh battle. And thus it was, the six first battles were waged, each neither victory or defeat, each leading to the next. The larger armies of Hira following the small army of Hunding. Outnumbered thirty to one, the singers never faltered from the Way. The stage was set, Hira and his Army maneuvered to the base of Hattu Mountain, where the hammer blow was delivered. The battle was pitched, and many singers fell that day. Hunding knew, that the singers who lived would be few, but Hira and his empire of evil would not live and so it went. At the end Hunding and less that twenty thousand Singers survived the day, but no army of evil was left to pillage and murder, more than three hundred thousand fell that day on Hattu. Of those who were left to run and live, all were scattered to the four winds, and organized force no more.â€

So, the base of Hattu Mountain was where they made their final stand against their enemy. This was their “point of no return†so to speak. It was either death or victory at this point. It was their Alamo. So, this underground resistance is essentially the last hope for the people of Tamriel to defeat the Thalmor just like Hattu was their last stand. So, what about “The Keepers of Hattu†as the name for my faction?

Others I thought about are “Remnant of Ansei†http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ansei , although that one seems a little too Redguard specific. And I also thought about “The Keepers of The Shehai†http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Frandar_Hunding

I will most definitely have a unique Shehai weapon as a reward, and at least a little backstory on the craft.

[Vereta]

You're story is really shaping up! If I had to choose, I'd say keep Valerius alive. From what I've read he's your centerpiece, he is what this mod seems to revolve around. The addition of lore-friendly content is always welcome in the community so this is a plus. Naming the faction is a little more difficult, though. Can you give more details on the faction? What are their intentions and such?

[Balok]

You're story is really shaping up! If I had to choose, I'd say keep Valerius alive. From what I've read he's your centerpiece, he is what this mod seems to revolve around. The addition of lore-friendly content is always welcome in the community so this is a plus. Naming the faction is a little more difficult, though. Can you give more details on the faction? What are their intentions and such?

Well, their intentions are to defeat the Thalmor by any means necessary. I would call it a singular purpose. And basically, to elaborate on the ideas above, after the stalemate and treaty of Stros M'kai, it could be implied that there were many others not of Redguard lineage that fought along side them. And they wanted to continue the resistance throughout the rest of the province. So they formed this underground movement to recruit, train and conduct covert operations against the Thalmor wherever they could. Valerius, with his lifetime of military traing would be a great choice as one of their high ranking leaders. And he basically continued in this underground faction to present day, where he is now in Skyrim.

[Vereta]

So they are fully organized? They aren't just a rag tag group of vigilantes seeking justice for the Thalmor's crimes? Or have they been significantly reduced?

[Balok]

I would say they're fully organized since it was nearly 20 years ago when they first formed. But I would also say their numbers are very small and they are very secretive for obvious reasons. So much so that many people think they're more of a myth or urban legend. I don't see them as anything as prominent or high profile as even the Vigilants of Stendarr or another similar faction. Like I say, almost more of a legend that still exists, but are very elusive perhaps. Think of something similar to the French resistance in WWII or something along those lines.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Balok

[Vereta]

You're names for the faction seem very valid then. I kinda like Remnants of Ansei, but it's your call.

[Balok]

TLDR: I have a Justicar character who is running some sort of black market enterprise on the side and profiting from the war. I suppose the obvious choice for what he deals would be weapons, but that’s sort of predictable. What would be something cool that he could be running that would have something to do with the war? I don’t want it to be something like skooma or drugs.

Detailed update:

OK, I’m back! Not to necro my own thread, but I’ve been extremely busy building, scripting and creating in the CK, and I’m at a point where I’m back on story writing. I’ve basically got the mechanics in place all the way through my quest up to the point where I need to start writing the next part of the story to know where I’m going. So, here’s a short run down of what I have. (This only hits the important stages, the real thing is MUCH more in depth.)

Messenger delivers note to Player to go find Marcus in Dead Mans Drink.

Player talks to Marcus, agrees to go to Helgen Keep to find Valerius.

Player returns to Marcus and escorts Marcus to Helgen Keep.

Give Marcus & Val 24 hours to talk privately.

Talk to Valerius who asks you to go find Korst who is missing.

Infiltrate the new Thalmor Prison to find and free Korst.

Search the prison for Intel. Read Intel. (more on this below)

Return Korst to Val, give Val the Intel.

Speak to Marcus about more guards for Helgen.

Option - Join the Stormcloaks or Imperials to be able to ask for their help. (additional small “favor†type side quest required)

Option – Recruit hired guards from around the province. (5 total)

Return to Helgen to see Marcus or Korst. New workers and guards are in place and doing their jobs, and clean up has begun!

Speak to Valerius about the strange woman (prostitute?)

(All of this is in the CK, working properly, and is waiting for final dialog and voice talent.)

(Note on the guards: If player chooses a faction path, there will be a new NPC named Oaken-Heart they meet at an Imperial or Stormcloak camp to get the favor quest mentioned above. 3 days or so after the favor quest, the guards & Oaken-Heart will be transferred from their current assignment at the camp to guard Helgen. For the Independent path, after recruiting all 5 recruits, I’ll have a humorous “drill sergeant†type scene where Korst lines them all up and berates them, makes them run laps and so forth like "Full Metal Jacket" just funnier. Then, Korst will ask player to take each one out on an evaluation mission to see what they’re made of. These missions will handled by the vanilla radiant system so they are random. As soon as the guards arrive however, workers also show up and start cleaning up all the rubble piles around town. I have stations set up where they go and beat and bang, hoe and shovel to simulate cleaning up.)

Note on the Intel at the new Thalmor prison: This intel reveals the head Justicar who is in charge of this new prison. He has recently been transferred here from a previous assignment, and in his personal journal I might make mention that he’s not necessarily pleased with his new orders. He obviously pissed someone off somehow to get this transfer. I will also mention he’s heard rumors that Valerius, an old nemesis of his might be in Skyrim. But he has a hard time believing its true. Also, folded up in his journal is a handwritten note from a concubine (or prostitute) he’s been sleeping with. So, after the guards are all squared away, I’m thinking on talking to Val again, and having an objective to find this woman to see if we can learn anything else about this Justicar. (Yes, I’m probably going to make the player have to sleep with her reqardless of race or gender, lol. I have some funny ideas in mind for the animal races, lol) This Justicar will eventually be revealed to be the one who tortured and murdered Valerius’ family back in the day. He will also be the one who kidnaps Marcus in an attempt to bait Valerius to come rescue him.)

Anyway, it might take a couple of times sleeping with her, or a high speech or bribe to get some info out of her. But I’m thinking that she will reveal this Justicar is running some sort of black market enterprise on the side and profiting from the war. I suppose the obvious choice would be weapons, but that’s sort of predictable. What would be something cool that he could be running that would have something to do with the war? I don’t want it to be something like skooma or drugs.