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Better than Skyrim and Oblivion?


dottedgirl
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Hello TESA!

I've heard it said quite frequently that Oblivion and Skyrim aren't even half of the game that Morrowind is. However... Why exactly?

Let me elaborate a little more. I found an old copy of Morrowind for the Xbox a while back and got it (2 dollars from a yardsale). I popped it in quite excitedly... Then... First off my Xbox 360 blurred Morrowind's graphics as much as it possibly could, letterboxed it so I could barely see it on my TV, and overall had what I felt to be cumbersome controls. I couldn't figure out what I was doing, but I was intrigued. But... the sheer number of skills scared me. Oblivion's leveling system greatly scared me, and Skyrim's system appeals to me a lot due to its relative simplicity and adaptability.

So, I'd like to hear what makes Morrowind...better? than Skyrim and Oblivion? Or, just good in general. :P

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Morrowind's charm takes time to sink in. In terms of graphics and game mechanics, (spellcasting, combat etc.) Morrowind was not as well developed as Oblivion or Skyrim so first impressions are understandably not so good if you've played the other games.

It charm lies in its depth. For starters, the storyline was a lot deeper. You had no idea what you were doing there but each quest completed brought you new clues and a step closer until your full destiny is all tied together close to the end. Compare: Skyrim = Dragonborn + Dragons, Oblivion = Amulet of Kings + Oblivion gates. Morrowind's main quest cannot be summarised into two words.

The game also felt vast. Journeys to distant places required planning and stocking up on consumables. The dungeons were more numerous and varied and many required levitation to navigate. The open world cities were full of individual NPCs going about their daily lives and very few had some obvious game function (unlike in the other games where almost every NPC is some sort of quest giver).

Top tier weapons and armour were RARE. They required a lot of exploring and investigating to obtain. Even then, nothing was perfect in every regard and you had to balance the pros and cons of each piece.

Unfortunately, Skyrim and to a lesser extent Oblivion were dumbed down to make it easy for those who don't have a brain and aren't willing to experiment. Those of us who wish use our heads to unravel mysteries get left out in the cold.

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Unfortunately, Skyrim and to a lesser extent Oblivion were dumbed down to make it easy for those who don't have a brain and aren't willing to experiment. Those of us who wish use our heads to unravel mysteries get left out in the cold.

D: Hey now, I'm not dumb/don't have a brain, and I am indeed willing to experiment!

I think that it isn't necessarily that Skyrim and Oblivion were 'dumbed' down for people that 'don't have a brain', but rather for people who don't want to use their brains so much. For some, simplicity is preferred because they'd rather be told a story than figure it out themselves. Of course, there isn't anything 'wrong' with those people (usually), but it is comparable to somebody saying that he/she hates Inception because they 'didn't get it'.

The way you put Morrowind makes it sound like quite an attractive piece to pick up, so I think I will get it on the PC when I get the chance. Any suggestions as far as character creation?

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I found an old copy of Morrowind for the Xbox a while back and got it (2 dollars from a yardsale).

Unfortunately you will not like Morrowind on the xbox. It was never designed for a console and was forceported years later with the poor graphics. The reason you will not like it is because you don't have access to the mods that have given Morrowind a completely new life, the same goes for all elder scrolls....playing any console version handicaps you incredibly and prevents you from enjoying the true extent of the game.

Today Morrowind is thriving more than oblivion and skyrim with so many more users experiencing the original thanks to the latest Morrowind Overhaul 3.0, combat overhaul, and Vurt's contributions....Morrowind enjoys modern graphics and better game play. You can see what the Overhaul 3.0 does to the game here: . The combat overhaul removes the dice-roll system and replaces it with the standard hit damage = strength + constitution numbers like oblivion and skyrim. This is a simple example of why consoles for these games are a bad idea.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw4ZCF43VRE&feature=related

Edited by hordane
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everything hordane said

Oh my, that looks excellent!

I completely agree about the whole console thing. FPS's like Halo and CoD are really all that I play on consoles (well, besides Nintendo games), mainly because those games often have a more 'arcade' feel to them. Pick up and play, rather than in-depth experiences.

I think that I like Skyrim a lot because of how immersed I can feel in the game world, something that seemed hard to achieve in Morrowind. However, that overhaul and Skywind... I have a feeling that together they will supersede Skyrim in EVERY way.

Not saying I'll ditch Skyrim :P It's still fun.

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Please do NOT discuss Morroblivion or any associated projects here on TESA, they are restricted topics.

From our rules:

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dottedgirl, I have morrowind on my original x-box and it still looks pretty ok on my tv. On your opening menu do you have "Options"? Check that to see if you can change the settings to improve the visuals. You can also look at the controls there. It`s been a very long time since I`ve played my x-box. If you can get the PC version (before prices go back up) you`ll have access to overhauls that make your install look the way you like.

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dottedgirl, I have morrowind on my original x-box and it still looks pretty ok on my tv. On your opening menu do you have "Options"? Check that to see if you can change the settings to improve the visuals. You can also look at the controls there. It`s been a very long time since I`ve played my x-box. If you can get the PC version (before prices go back up) you`ll have access to overhauls that make your install look the way you like.

Oh I already ditched the Xbox version and bought the PC version when it was on sale. I just haven't played it yet. The overhaul-which-must-not-be-named is on my to-download list now too.

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Oblivion and Skyrim were both made for the console 'first'.

Morrowind was made for the PC 'first'. Thus it is more adventure.

Console games tend to be 'short' levels which Oblivion and Skyrim were both dumbed down to when compared to Morrowind. In Morrowind, I could spend an entire week playing and not finish the main quest where-as in Skyrim or Oblivion, give me a day and its done.

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Oblivion failed to draw me in the short time I played it, but I had already formed an opinion about it from reading other people's thoughts and seeing screenshots (why Bethesda went with doughy faces I don't know) and I haven't seen or read anything on Skyrim that made me want to run out and buy it. Morrowind is still installed on my computer and I'm still active in the community even though I rarely play anymore because it has a certain charm that feels lacking in the other games (even the previous two). I wouldn't say Oblivion and Skyrim were dumbed down, but they do feel more like action-adventure games with RPG elements than the RPGs I grew up with (Baldur's Gate, Planescape:Torment, etc.). It's like going from Neverwinter Nights 2 to Diablo III. If they told a great story, I could over look that: the Mass Effect series is basically action-adventure, but I enjoy the stories. Still, the fact that Morrowind's modding community is still going fairly strong ten years after release should say something about it. ;)

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I went back and played Morrowind again recently. I was amazed in many ways, although I had played it through several times many years ago.

I think I understand the reason for the difference from the more recent TES games, and it's consistent with what WillieSea and several others have said. Bethesda is a commercial venture whose purpose is to make money by providing entertaining games. The largest demographic is 14 year old boys. Games that require deep thought , a long attention span, and do not require lightning reflexes will be less appealing to that demographic; thus will be less commercially successful.

It's an unfortunate fact that those of us who appreciate the pace and complex main quest of Morrowind are in the minority. We are lucky to have it, especially now that many mods provide more up to date graphics.

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I'm still playing Morrowind, as I have been on and off since 2003, and I still find new things - new dungeons (there's sooo many of them!) and even some new NPCs standing about. So, yes, it is a great game! And it has so many awesome mods that are still being developed!

I really wish Bethesda would go back to creating complex games like Morrowind again... If TESO becomes a success, they no longer have to think that much about money, so then they could make more complex games, right..? no..? :shrug:

Now, the UESP might be an important resource when playing Morrowind, and I don't think anyone have done everything there is to do without ever looking at a page on UESP... But I just want to say, do not use it unless absolutely necessary! One of the (many) charms of Morrowind is that there are no quest markers, and all you base the quest location on is what the NPC giving you the quest said about it, or if you investigate a bit, what another NPC said about it.

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I really wish Bethesda would go back to creating complex games like Morrowind again... If TESO becomes a success, they no longer have to think that much about money, so then they could make more complex games, right..? no..? :shrug:

I don't think money has anything to do with it. The market has changed (to consoles) according to the accountants and the developers have changed with it. Maybe they'll go back to creating games like Morrowind, or maybe it was just a fluke in the history of TES. That or our perceptions of what makes a great game are different than the "majority" of gamers.

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Yeah, the market has definitely changed (and in some, if not most aspects, for the worse), and of course developers will change with it. The developers makes what most people would want to play.

Based on posts around the web about people trying Morrowind after Oblivion/Skyrim, it seems to point towards the fact that our perception of what makes a great game is different than the "majority", although if Bethesda were to make a game with the depth and complexity of Morrowind, but with more up-to-date graphics and combat, I think that would change. Then again, almost everyone who played Morrowind before Oblivion/Skyrim thinks Morrowind is the best of the three, so... I don't know what to take from this.

And when one of the biggest complaints about Morrowind from people who played it after Oblivion/Skyrim is that there are no Quest Markers, Lanceor couldn't be more right... "Unfortunately, Skyrim and to a lesser extent Oblivion were dumbed down to make it easy for those who don't have a brain and aren't willing to experiment. Those of us who wish use our heads to unravel mysteries get left out in the cold."

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Morrowind's charm takes time to sink in. In terms of graphics and game mechanics, (spellcasting, combat etc.) Morrowind was not as well developed as Oblivion or Skyrim so first impressions are understandably not so good if you've played the other games.

It charm lies in its depth. For starters, the storyline was a lot deeper. You had no idea what you were doing there but each quest completed brought you new clues and a step closer until your full destiny is all tied together close to the end. Compare: Skyrim = Dragonborn + Dragons, Oblivion = Amulet of Kings + Oblivion gates. Morrowind's main quest cannot be summarised into two words.

<snip>

I agree. I would like to add something else that's related to what you just said.

I really miss the possibility to enchant items in-game (only sigil stones could be used in Oblivion) in later games, but also the ability to use alchemy (Skyrim have alchemy tables) whenever you want if there were no enemies around.

Edited by Leonardo
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In my mods, I never use quest markers, and a lot of people complain. I just say tough luck, figure it out anyway. They do, and I think they are happier with defeating the mod than if their hand was held the entire time.

Arena was good too, it was so big I never did finish it... And it was all random which made it even harder.

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In my mods, I never use quest markers, and a lot of people complain. I just say tough luck, figure it out anyway. They do, and I think they are happier with defeating the mod than if their hand was held the entire time.

Arena was good too, it was so big I never did finish it... And it was all random which made it even harder.

Hm, maybe I should just remove the quest markers in the final Kvatch Rebuilt version... It is actually quite fun when you get people begging for help because a quest marker points to a place a few meters away from where they are supposed to be, and they simply can not find it. :razz: ... oh people... :shrug:

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It is actually quite fun when you get people begging for help because a quest marker points to a place a few meters away from where they are supposed to be, and they simply can not find it. :razz: ... oh people... :shrug:

:facepalm:

In a moment of frustration, I was almost compelled to create "The Quest for the Quest Marker" where the only point of the quest is to follow questmarkers.

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Stage 1: "Follow the quest marker", Stage 2: "Follow the second quest marker", Stage 3: "Now, follow the third, and perhaps the final quest marker", Stage 4: "Oh, there was another one - follow the quest marker!"

...Quest markers have now been removed from Kvatch Rebuilt... feels good - looking forward to releasing that version. ;D

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