[Ob/SOLVED] Spiral Staircase woes

[jamochawoke]

So I had this vision for a building in my mod that has a spiral staircase. 

 

I created one a normal person could use and scaled it to fit the tallest of the playable race NPC's in the game, and made a smooth ramp plane going up it like the other staircases in the game use. It ended up being kind of a steep uphill degree but I as the player was able to get up and down the stairs in the game fairly easily. There's a bit of collision nonsene that goes on because the spiral forces the player to change directions every so often to get up with a handrail, but it isn't any harder to get up than say a steep-ish hill in the game.

 

The real problem is NPC's. I have an NPC that is supposed to greet you on the main floor, then head up to his quarters up the stairs at night to do some activities and should be able to chase the player if they are caught stealing or something. There's also a private guard in the building who is supposed to patrol between the two floors. But the NPC's get stuck on the stairs. He'll climb the first few then get down and run around them, climb the first few stairs again then repeat as he tries to reach the door portal at the top. 

 

I know there is a solution that I've seen in Glenvar Castle mod that has their spiral staircase going in a huge circumference with tiny little stairs. Only problem is, there's no way I could even fit a staircase like that in my building (and it's a building surrounded by buildings and is embedded in a wall in the Imperial City so I can't simply make it larger on the exterior either). Plus, the staircase I had in mind and had created is an elegant wooden thing with brass handle. It looks absolutely terrible when stretched out.

 

I tried stretching it out anyways and reducing the degree angle of the steps... but that created z-axis problems (ie: the player or npc's can't even fit their head in) and the only way to solve that, again, is to make the staircase freaking huge like in Glenvar Castle.

 

So now I'm trying to brainstorm solutions. I can animate fairly well, so that's not out of the question:

 

1) I could put an xmarkerheading static down at the beginning of the stairs and instead of having the NPC's travel to the upstairs I can have them "Use Item At" there and give them an animation item that will play an animation of them walking up the stairs and then one at the top where they will walk down the stairs.

--------> I foresee this having the problem of if the player decides to fight them or steal from them, all they have to do is go up the stairs and the NPC's will get stuck as usual there.

 

2) I'm not sure if this would even work but I could put a series of doors teleporting up the stairs (doors without collision so the player can't see them or access them), the NPC's should be able to use them though, right?

--------> I foresee some really weird animations happening from this though. especially since NPC's tend to reduce their alpha for a second as they pass through doors, no?

 

3) I could change the shape of the stairs, and instead of a pure spiral have it be a series of standard steps and ledges going around the central column. A kind of wrap-around that mimics a spiral but keeps straight planes.
-------> May not fit into the apse I have the staircase going up.

-------> May look strange and definitely won't fit with my original idea... but I could force it to work I suppose.

-------> This would make some of the steps pretty small width-wise

 

I am definitely open to suggestions!!!!

[donnato]

For which game Jamo?

[jamochawoke]

Woops Oblivion. It's the only game I'm working on right now but I should've put that in the thread title.

[donnato]

Ok, well I was making a giant seashell house awhile ago with a curving staircase. I just duped the stairs early in the process and saved to another layer. Then converted that into my collision object. I don`t know if that helps.

[jamochawoke]

I don't really understand your meaning. Are you saying you combined the stairs' collision with the house's internal collision? I don't see how that would help any in my case since the NPC's are simply having trouble using the collision of the stairs in the first place. 

 

Also the shape isn't just curving, it's a true spiral going straight up.

[donnato]

Sorry, I`m speaking of making a new mesh in blender.

[jamochawoke]

Here's what it looks like (trying hard to avoid spoilers) and yes I made the mesh in Blender and dropped it as a static in TESCS.

 

Edited June 28, 2014 by jamochawoke

[donnato]

Yeah, that looks a little tight for OBs NPCs .. dunno why but they don`t act well when cramped.

[jamochawoke]

Think any of those solutions I posited up in the first post would work? As I stated before he'll go up the first 5-6 steps, and will even fight from there. Afterwards he just goes back down and circles around and around the staircase's base. I tried multiple different setups with gridpathing with no success, always the same reaction from the NPC. 

 

Again, I as the player can get up the stairs without issue (I'll only get stuck if I try to force the player character through the rails, which you shouldn't be doing anyways and it doesn't last, so I deem it acceptable risk, and I've tightened up the collision mesh a lot too to get it to work better). 

 

I'm pretty much up for trying anything except redoing the entire staircase/building. I need that building in that spot, that's the only space it would give me on the exterior and the interior matches the exterior. I designed the staircase to go up through the building to save space inside the building (which is what people use spiral staircases for anyways). And it looks boss as hell . 

 

I'd be "ok" with redoing the design of the staircase itself, but only as a last resort.

[donnato]

I`ve read and understand your original post. I also understand your reluctance to re-do everything. I`m very weak on NPC behavior. I`m guessing that you have a "follow" script in place? Otherwise.. I`ve gone as far as I know how.  sorry.

[jamochawoke]

Well I ended up sucking it up and going back into Blender to expand the apse and expand the width of the steps and the distance of the railing from the central column by 25%, creating a much wider walkway. Now the NPC's won't even use the staircase, just simply milling about sad-faced as they try to get to the upper rooms :/...

 

I tried it using the player character, and it's about twice as easy to walk up now 0_o?

[grond]

Collision or tight spots aren't the big problem - Oblivion's NPCs just aren't too bright  

 

Have you experimented with the number and placement of the path nodes on the stair?  Try using more or less than you have.

[jamochawoke]

I found out that placing the nodes a little bit above the z-axis coordinate for the collision plane of the stairs made the NPC interact with them more, thanks for the idea!

 

Turns out I had another bug happen that turns out to be a major blessing in disguise though! Oblivion NPC's ARE stupid. But it seems that they ignore z-axis coordinates for a lot of things (hence why things can hit you while you are in the air). So as soon as my NPC walked underneath the door at the top he'd instantly port up. At this point a compromise with the NPC walking halfway up the stairs and porting himself the rest of the way doesn't seem so bad. And when he needs to come down the stairs he uses them flawlessly.

[jamochawoke]

It's kind of cool to watch my NPC's use the staircase now .

[grond]

Nice! Glad I could nudge you toward the fix.

[donnato]

    Very nice to hear this. I kinda figured that you`d already checked the path grids so...didn`t mention it. Congratz.