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Poor Communication Kills.


Dark_Ansem
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I am currently in the middle of an "argument" with a developer of a Kickstarter game. Depending on how he reacts, I am going to upload the conversation with or without relevant details to his username and the project his team is working on.

 

In any case, I want the opinion of the community on this, honestly. In my struggle for self-improvement, I want to learn what I am doing wrong. But, at the same time, I will not take crap from complete strangers who, in theory, are NOT Youtube cretins and should know how to behave. Feel free to speak your mind and ask for clarifications, if interested.

 

The cruel truth is, however, the developers here have spoiled me: now I think everyone is as wonderful as they are.

 

Stay tuned if you want, I think tonight I am going to upload the conversation until now.

 

 

 

Between you and [DEVELOPER]

You 5:49 pm

Any plan to make a full gameplay trailer for the game? 

 

[DEVELOPER] 5:59 pm

I understand that you are excited about The Mandate, but we are getting to a point where you are starting to bother both Devs and Moderators with your activities on the forums and also private messages.

 

Consider this a warning: We will revoke your ability to post on the forums as well as ability to send private messages if you continue with your current behaviour. 

 

To keep yourself busy until we are ready to release additional info:

 

-Buy Mount&Blade and/or Mount&Blade:Warband

-Down "The Last Days" mod for Mount&Blade or "Prophecy of Pendor" mod for Mount&Blade:Warband. Alternatively the Star Wars Conquest mod. All these options should keep you busy for several hundred hours until we are ready to release more info about The Mandate

 

-Buy Skyrim (if you do not already own it) as that sandbox RPG can easily also keep you busy for several hundred hours, especially with all the mods that are released

 

You 6:06 pm

excuse me? I sent you developers ONE message, one to you and one to [NiceDev]. this is the second one in 10 days, which is not exactly much. Other than that, I've done nothing via PM.

 

And what I say to [Moderator] via PM is not your business, especially since I tend to speak with him on Steam. You're beyond your jurisdiction

 

And what exactly have I done on the forums? List the "activities", and I'll answer you point per point.

 

If you want to revoke my capabilities, you can do that, I most certainly don't have the power to stop you. It will not be without consequence, however.

 

And btw, I have skyrim already. Boredom is NOT an issue, I am a MSc\MA student. If I want to dedicate you my time, it's with a purpose. You'd consider hiring a PR person.

 

[DEVELOPER] 6:52 pm

I do not know what you are referring to regarding [Moderator] & Steam. What I am asking you for is firstly to stop sending PMs to Devs to ask about additional marketing material, special discounts on pledge tiers etc. Secondly I ask you to review your own posts from the last 2-3 weeks objectively and then evaluate whether each post really adds value to the discussion in the form of new insights, knowledge, suggestions etc. Going forward please keep this in mind when writing new posts, necroing old threads or creating new threads.

 

I do not see how your education (or mine for that matter) is relevant in this context. If we need specific input from the community as a whole (or from you in particular) then we will reach out and ask for it.

 

If you feel this is unfair and one-sided (and you disagree with the point of view of Devs and Moderators about your posts/PMs) then we understand if you would like a refund of your pledge(s).

 

You 7:04 pm

* the mentioning of my education was the appropriate answer to your rude and offensive suggestion stating that I have too much time on my hands.

 

* secondly, one PM is hardly harassment, in any point of view and social context, virtual or otherwise. Forgive me if I am not like [RichUser], who could spend thousands of dollars for you, I am a student trying to relocate away from home because his own country does not give him any hope or prospect of future success. Perhaps, if I had invested 1000$ in your project, you'd consider me less a nuisance and more a "valued" customer. Sadly, I am on a budget, trying to save every penny but still wanting to contribute to a project, also due to the mentioned education and creativity. I made you an offer and you rejected it disdainfully, you didn't even bother to answer me directly. Sorry, if I have to work (or study, in my case) hard for the money I need in order to live.

 

* thirdly, my posts on the forums: the responsibility is mostly yours. I am high-maintenance, for sure, but if you spent a little more words, it wouldn't kill you.

 

It's not like what I write has no logical basis: I am channelling the community sentiment that everyone thinks but no one speaks loud.

 

And you can't blame me for the lack of "posts of value": you've given us very little to elaborate on in a solid way, but a lot to speculate on, even wildly.

 

* finally, if you feel I want to back out of the project, or rather: you showing me the door because of lack of any logical basis for your argument... this is offensive, insulting and hurtful at the same time. LittleGreenManGaming, GamesFarm, Larian Studios and Obsidian Entertainment: I've been doing EA for all those people and, especially in the first two cases, my countributions were valid enough to earn me a name in the End Credits (the games are both indie major hits: Starpoint Gemini 2 and Shadows Heretic Kingdoms).

 

I do not want out, I want to help and be a part of it. You showing me the door is, in addition to what stated before, a clear sign that, once backed, you do not value your backers anymore, and feel entitled to treat them like vermin, as you've just done to me.

 

[DEVELOPER] 7:51 pm

I spent my own free time digging up video links for you since you wrote that Unity web player does not work for you. The video with the ship designer and destruction demo clearly shows the damage modelling we are aiming for (but have since improved upon and will cover in the next update). Your response is then to send me a PM which requires additional follow-up from me. This makes me feel that when I am offerering a helping hand you immediately ask for the arm instead. Am I making sense? You mention that you are high maintenance so you have more insight than most people do but do you also consider how other people may react and why they react the way they do?

 

I understand that you are upset but even though it may not seem/feel like it to you right now, we are happy to receive your help and input regardless of whether you pledged $20, $200 or $2000. However, you need to understand that this needs to happen on our terms and when we need/ask for it.

 

You 8:06 pm

I didn't ask you to find a video, the purpose of my "Any plan to make a full gameplay trailer for the game?" was to know, not to request. if anything, you make sense, but your sense is based off a misunderstanding, born out of a bias concerning me fueled, no doubt, by bad mood you are experiencing and by misunderstanding of most of my messages. and of course, from proper understanding of my most "polemic" messages. I won't be as so stupid to deny that.

 

So yes, I consider how people may react and why they react the way they do. I am a forensic psychologist-in-training, other than a lawyer-in-training and an officer that fights cyberbullying. so I am more understanding and have more insight than others, but I am also much more sensitive and attentive to this kind of matters and interaction, and are very careful in my choice of words. Hence, if you react in a way and I have (in an objective way) done nothing to 

 

You understand, but you do not really care or believe I am serious, otherwise you would not have, methaporically, spat on my face when I offered you my help (albeit implicitly) for your PR side, in light of your threat of ban and interdiction (another person would have sent you to hell, no ifs or buts). And honestly, after your reaction I am nowhere willing to believe that you're "happy" to recieve help and input. Rather, you "endure" it, hoping it is not divergent from your "Game Vision Statement". I want to believe you, however.

 

You 8:10 pm

ADDENDUM: I am forced to do an extra message because of a "EDIT" button absence.

 

"I am glad they posted letting us know so we are not left hanging." - This is a couple messages under yours in the Update #44 thread. As you can see, what I mentioned before is proven true, by complete accident and outside my will.

 

You 11:30 pm

ADDENDUM #2: "I Hope the developers would share more game inform with us, plus comment more on the forum." "I'd like to see something that will dispel doubts that this project might fail. " "Yes, I do want the best game possible, but I want a game at all to begin with."

 

3 random comments in that thread alone, by people that you probably do not despise as much as me.

 

As you can see, I am not alone.

Despite this, you vented out your frustration and anger at me, an undeserving individual, just because my desire is more powerful than that of others, and I am more prone to action. Ever heard "don't shoot the messenger, don't blame the messenger?"

 

To clarify my original 2 messages, the ones that "bothered Devs and Moderators": I asked for a trailer hoping it would be a bgm-less one in order to practice my video editing skills and upload it on youtube. And I asked for the discount because I wanted to contribute in a unique way that is different than the event you are selling, as it would not have required an in-game quest, but just an approval for a piece of lore.

 

The least you could do would be to apologise: for the unwarranted threats and for the insulting, thoughtless, hurtful and condescending words and behaviour.

 

Normally, in any civilised and social context (virtual or physical), some kind of reparation should happen at this point, since the apology didn't come (I'll clarify: when a person realizes to have been an incredible boor with another one, for no real reason). If you have any ideas, I am listening.


There we go. Since my messages are now deliberately ignored, it is obvious that the person does not care.

And since I discovered that not only no reparations would be done, but also that I am on probation, I am calling off the politically correct and putting the game name.

 

EDIT: Updating the OP.

 

"If you feel this is unfair and one-sided (and you disagree with the point of view of Devs and Moderators about your posts/PMs) then we understand if you would like a refund of your pledge(s)."

This is what made me completely mental.

It translates as "dude, we don't need you or your money, we were all sweet before you backed but now we feel entitled to say whatever we want and even to spit your 30 silvers back in your face".

Edited by Dark_Ansem
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Your post is written with a cool and detached tone, which makes me want to leave it open for a discussion.  However, inclusion of more specific details about the developers in question will turn this thread into cross-site trolling, which we prohibit in our rules.

 

I'll leave this thread open as long as it remains a non-specific discussion of the rights of the players/users of others' creations. :salute:

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Sorry this is happening. 
But I don't think it's a great idea to post pm's between you and another party if they were supposed to be private between you two. Did the other guy agree to this? It's far from illegal ofcourse, but it's bad form because the dude probably has no idea and can not join the conversation. Or he gets contacted/bothered by people, which he obviously doesn't like.  

I think that if you love the project they're doing, you should probably not do this. I know you're upset, I have no idea what transpired to make them react with such a big warning, etc., in this context it seems very abrupt and a bit extreme. But I think you should not let it escalate like this if you can.
I understand you feel wronged and I sympathize, but this can only make it worse for you. You seem to want to do anything you can to help out with this kickstarter/project, but you may lose this oppertunity if this escalates. 

Good luck, I hope this gets solved without too much of an issue.
 

Edited by NoukNouk
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