TigerCubofPNW

[SKY] Custom House Problems

For the most part, as I've said, I enjoy figuring out the puzzles of how to make stuff work in Creation Kit. However, when it's dumb stuff that should just work and it doesn't, my patience is tested.

I created a really nice custom house. It's all Nav meshed and decorated and I'm happy with it. However, some stuff is not working and I just don't know what to do.

1) "Don't Havok Settle" is being ignored. For wall decor, I created this really sweet array of shields hanging on weapon plaques. Each shield is set to "Don't havok settle" so they should just stay put. However, they fall off the wall. I'm guessing this is just one of those "Skyrim is dumb" things and I will be forced to abandon the displays or, using the skills granted me by the amazing Hana, create static items. Unless, is there something about "collision" (a mystery as yet to me) that can change this?

2) Getting people to do stuff. I've studied the Patrol Method and the Setting Daily Routine method. I studied the thorough and wonderful work Andragon did with the Underground Bathhouse. At the moment, I can get my NPCs to randomly sandbox in one area, but directing them to use idle markers is not working. They will use them in the process of generic Sandboxing, but neither method of directing NPCs is making them use idles.

 a) It seems to me that each idle marker, object, etc can be attached to one patrol pattern and that can only be assigned to one NPC. Is that correct? (with everything failing, it's hard for me to even know) So, Bob can patrol to the table, to the railing and back. However, Sam can't patrol first to that same table and then to the same railing and back. Yes?

 b) When making a custom AI package, is the "Use Idle Marker" one of those Creation Kit things that just doesn't work? I tell them to use an idle marker at a certain time and they tell me to go get stuffed. (yes, the ownership data is all set correctly)

3) Dead Silence. I edited the internal data to use the same music and sounds as the Bannered Mare. The house is dead quiet save for the crackling of fire.

All of this has me a bit frustrated since this should be the easy part. So any help would be appreciated.

 

4) Finally, a bard question. I just want my bard to play an instrument. I don't even want to make requests. I just want him to stand there and play. I've created him according to the tutorials and the only thing I didn't do was give him the "Nord Male Voice" which should ONLY make the dialogues not come up and make him not be able to sing. But he isn't playing his instrument either. Any ideas how to make him do that?

 


 

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Well I can tell you right off the 'Don't Havok Settle' don't mean the object won't fall. If you are using an item that will havok, then it'll always be effected by gravity. Don't Havok Settle is designed so two or more havoc objects can rest against one another and not fling each other across the room. Pretty much they wont 'settle' unless a player touch's them. But they are still effected by gravity so you can't make a havoc object float in the air. Like you put a plate on a table, and tell it to not havoc settle so if its say part way in the table, or has something on top, it wont react to the other objects until the player pokes it.

What you want to do for that is double click the object in the list (not the cell) you're trying to use and locate the nif file path and copy it. Then under STATIC right click and create new, paste in the path, give it it's own ID, and bam, a static, non moving version of the object that will float where ever you set it.

 

That is the only bit I know of.. outside the music and that are you sure your music's not turned off? theres also times where music wont start right off when you enter a cell. least I've seen that for my tower home. it takes a chunk of time for it to start.

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To avoid objects falling on the floor, just open their reference window, go to the "scripts" tab and add the "defaultdisablehavokonload". Dragonborn broke "don't havok settle".

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Well I can tell you right off the 'Don't Havok Settle' don't mean the object won't fall. If you are using an item that will havok, then it'll always be effected by gravity. Don't Havok Settle is designed so two or more havoc objects can rest against one another and not fling each other across the room. Pretty much they wont 'settle' unless a player touch's them. But they are still effected by gravity so you can't make a havoc object float in the air. Like you put a plate on a table, and tell it to not havoc settle so if its say part way in the table, or has something on top, it wont react to the other objects until the player pokes it.

What you want to do for that is double click the object in the list (not the cell) you're trying to use and locate the nif file path and copy it. Then under STATIC right click and create new, paste in the path, give it it's own ID, and bam, a static, non moving version of the object that will float where ever you set it.

 

That is the only bit I know of.. outside the music and that are you sure your music's not turned off? theres also times where music wont start right off when you enter a cell. least I've seen that for my tower home. it takes a chunk of time for it to start.

Ah thanks for the replies, IronBlock and LadyontheMoon. I guess I was misinformed about Havoksettling. That will change some things...

I know the music isn't turned off because I have one character whose game/save file thingy is all kinds of messed up and one of the playful things it does is start playing the dramatic "Fight!" music when I'm, you know, picking flowers or mining ore or, well, walking. Poor character has been the victim of all my testing and now everything with him is buggy AF. :) And I thought his weirdness with music might be the problem so I did the thing I didn't want to do and used my non-test character just to be sure and no, no music. It's eerie as heck, having a big house that quiet. And at this point, that's my biggest issue. I'd like to control NPCs using certain idles at certain times, but I can live without that. The silence thing.... I dunno. All the tutorials I've read say it's just as simple as selecting the music in the interior data. There's no other trick to it so I'm stumped. I tried both the interior tavern music files. I suppose for giggles I could try one of the other music files just to see what happens...

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1) Yes, if it's just decoration create a static.

2) NPC's are stupid. What exactly do you want them to do?

IdleMarkers are for sandboxing. Sandboxing is just that - do what you want when you want. If there's idlemarkers the npc may or may not use it.

If you want them to do something specific, you need to tell them;

a) place furniture - ie; woodchoppingblock
b) (optional) place an idlemarker and link to NPC Ref (also link NPC Ref to idlemarker)
C) give npc a correct package - ie; dragonbridgewoodcutter6x12 (but customized to your npc) - to tell the npc when to go there

A and B are for sandboxing behavior.
A and C are for specific behavior.

Don't give idle markers ownership unless you only want one specific npc to ever use it

3) Test on a new character.

4) Is he in the right factions? Did you place an xmarkerheading near his ref and link them?

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1) Yes, if it's just decoration create a static.

2) NPC's are stupid. What exactly do you want them to do?

IdleMarkers are for sandboxing. Sandboxing is just that - do what you want when you want. If there's idlemarkers the npc may or may not use it.

If you want them to do something specific, you need to tell them;

a) place furniture - ie; woodchoppingblock
b) (optional) place an idlemarker and link to NPC Ref (also link NPC Ref to idlemarker)
C) give npc a correct package - ie; dragonbridgewoodcutter6x12 (but customized to your npc) - to tell the npc when to go there

A and B are for sandboxing behavior.
A and C are for specific behavior.

Don't give idle markers ownership unless you only want one specific npc to ever use it

3) Test on a new character.

4) Is he in the right factions? Did you place an xmarkerheading near his ref and link them?

AH, Hana, my savior. Seriously, you have no idea... Every time I work with Blender now, with confidence, understanding what it's doing I want to send you virtual hugs. :)

I) So, I assume once I create this static, that is yet one more thing that has to be packed with the mod?

2) Okay, like, I have a Warm Hands Idle Marker and I have a Lean Rail Idle marker, as an example. I am establishing their daily routine. So while I want some random Sandboxing, I also want them to do specific things. So, say, at Hour 4 I want them to Warm Hands and then at Hour 6 I want them to go and lean on the rail and then, when not busy, just sandbox. So I have the AI package for Hour 4 set up as "Use Idle" and I have it linked to the Warm Hands Idle Marker. For the Hour 6 package, I have the "Use Idle" point to the lean marker. Then I have the General Sandbox, in position three of the stack, telling them just to do whatever whenever they're not busy. The idle markers are set to ownership of a specific faction and the NPCs are all in that faction. In fact, while randomly sandboxing, they will sometimes use those idles. However, at Hour 4 and Hour 6, they don't use the idles as ordered. My thought was just that this Use Idle Marker thing in the CK's AI Package maker just doesn't work. So I was wondering if anyone knew about that. I don't really think patrols are going to work for me. As stated, that seems to have it so that every idlemarker can only be used in one patrol and that's no good. Also, patrols are too structured and they don't provide me a daily routine option.

3) I did. That is, I called up my non test character who doesn't have all kinds of weird bugginess attached to him and he also got no music.
     ETA: FIXED!!! Okay, so, in my efforts to solve another problem I created a Location for my house in the Location list. Locations have their own music choice drop down and since I hadn't selected anything there, I got silence. I changed it and now all is well. WHEW!!!!

4) He is in the BardPlayerFaction (or whatever it's called). As to an X-Marker heading... That wasn't in the tutorials I watched. What's up with that?

Edited by TigerCubofPNW
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I think the only stuff to be packed are custom stuff. Making a static uses whats already in game and called. There's no going looking for the niff file and moving it or what not. You're just calling an existing object in game and making a new instance of it as a static object, just as I said. There wont be anything to 'pack' sense it's not a new niff file.

Just find the object you want in the object window and double click it.
Say like, GlazedCup01Nordic , there'll be a model path, Clutter\GlazedCup01.nif copy that path.
http://i.imgur.com/Puqy3X3.png
Under world objects> static right click and select new.
Under model hit edit, then edit again, and when it ask's for a file path paste in your path while in the default mesh folder. Bam it'll load up the mesh from the skyrims files. Give it a custom ID and you now have a static version of that object.
http://i.imgur.com/YewC3rA.png

That's what I did to make a non movable version of these cups to stuff in my kitchen shelving. There's nothing extra to pack sense you're using skyrim's default, just under a new flag.

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I think the only stuff to be packed are custom stuff. Making a static uses whats already in game and called. There's no going looking for the niff file and moving it or what not. You're just calling an existing object in game and making a new instance of it as a static object, just as I said. There wont be anything to 'pack' sense it's not a new niff file.

Just find the object you want in the object window and double click it.
Say like, GlazedCup01Nordic , there'll be a model path, Clutter\GlazedCup01.nif copy that path.
http://i.imgur.com/Puqy3X3.png
Under world objects> static right click and select new.
Under model hit edit, then edit again, and when it ask's for a file path paste in your path while in the default mesh folder. Bam it'll load up the mesh from the skyrims files. Give it a custom ID and you now have a static version of that object.
http://i.imgur.com/YewC3rA.png

That's what I did to make a non movable version of these cups to stuff in my kitchen shelving. There's nothing extra to pack sense you're using skyrim's default, just under a new flag.

 

Thanks. I'm going to try that next.

ETA: Awesome! Never would have thought of that. Much better than my solution of creating an object in Blender!!!

Edited by TigerCubofPNW
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For your idles, the warm hands idle should be a travel package, with the idle marker as the location - see AslfurStandFire8x12 package as an example.

The lean idle should be a sit package, as the railleanmarker is furniture - see WhiterunJonPatrolPackage10x8 package as an example. He leans on a wall, but it's the same setup.

There's no need to linkref anything, and setting ownership should be fine.

 

As for your Bard, having never read any of the tutorials out there I'm just going by what I see in the CK for existing setups. Take a look at SvenPlayInn10x16 for example. It's a sandbox package, directed to an xmarkerheading. The xmarkerheading has a "Linked From" ref of Sven's ref. It also has a keyword of BardPlaySpot, not sure if that's relevent or not.

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For your idles, the warm hands idle should be a travel package, with the idle marker as the location - see AslfurStandFire8x12 package as an example.

The lean idle should be a sit package, as the railleanmarker is furniture - see WhiterunJonPatrolPackage10x8 package as an example. He leans on a wall, but it's the same setup.

There's no need to linkref anything, and setting ownership should be fine.

 

As for your Bard, having never read any of the tutorials out there I'm just going by what I see in the CK for existing setups. Take a look at SvenPlayInn10x16 for example. It's a sandbox package, directed to an xmarkerheading. The xmarkerheading has a "Linked From" ref of Sven's ref. It also has a keyword of BardPlaySpot, not sure if that's relevent or not.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I have basically beaten the idles into submission.

The bard and the music is killing me.

So, I did that little fix I mentioned with the music. I loaded the game, the music was playing. Satisfied, I went on to run other checks and then, when I return, the music has once again stopped. Dead Silence. AGAIN. Oy vey

I have studied Sven's AI, looked at the Bard Songs quests and I'll be honest, I can't see anywhere at all that anything ever says to play a skyrim audio file. It all seems hardcoded into a "well, they'll play it when they feel like" thing. I have managed to force my bard to play instruments, but they don't make any sound. Is that wrong? Shouldn't the sound of drums play when the NPC is playing the drums? Like, when an NPC uses the grindstone idle, the sound of the grindstone can be heard.

This and that damn MCM problem are killing me. I don't know how to fix them and a lot of work will be for nothing if everything else is up to my standards and this part of the mod sucks.

I did a wipe and reinstall of Skyrim a few months back and I don't want to go through that again.

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Your shields will fall off, unless you link ref them.  You don't need statics if you don't want to.

Sometimes objects explode, looking like a havoc issue. Just make sure items are not trying to occupy space that

another has occupied.

You can have your NPCs patrol any idle marker.

You can have ALL of your npcs use the same idle markers by sharing FACTION OWNERSHIP or just by them patrolling

idle markers at different times.

Edited by Ashenfire
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