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[Sky] Some Nav Meshing questions


IronBlockGames
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Some of these I asked in my topic for my Eitherflow Tower mod, but I'll ask em again here plus a few others.

1. I know it's best to not delete existing navmesh, but can you do other things to it? Like merge points, or even split it? Like if I need a hole placed for a tree, is it safe to split the mesh? Or do I have to find some way to scooch it out of the way? Also how do you split it... I know you can delete a bit to make a hole, but deleteing is a nono.

2. So you moved all your nav mesh out of the way of your build... what if you have a clump of it that you don't want, due to it being in a rather bad spot? Is there a safe way to remove or disable it? I have a large section of mesh that ends up going down a very steep hill as well as ending in a sort of a 'dead end hall'.

3. Is it safe to fill in holes in the existing mesh? I know it's safe to add mesh onto the existing.. and hole filling should be the same right?

4. What is a good methood to navmeshing stairways? I've found at times it seems npc's have a hard time going up and down them. I do mean one large continueus mesh from bottom up the steps and onward. But some times I've noticed npc's just.. dislike them.. and end up teleporting instead. This is seen in one stairway in my owlrock mod, the stairs leading up to the upper area. I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong with these as the other stairs work fine and are meshed the same way. Are the npc's just being picky?

5. The biggest thing... It seems like whenever I edit an outside mesh, all connecting cells also get an edit when there never touched and I am inside the intended cell while editing. These edits don't get cleaned with tes5edit either unless I do it manually. The cells get a *, but going into the cell nothing in the objects list or navmesh has a *... so I dunno whats up. Anyone else have this? Or knows what causes it?

 

Edited by IronBlockGames
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  • 2 weeks later...

Some of these I asked in my topic for my Eitherflow Tower mod, but I'll ask em again here plus a few others.

1. I know it's best to not delete existing navmesh, but can you do other things to it? Like merge points, or even split it? Like if I need a hole placed for a tree, is it safe to split the mesh? Or do I have to find some way to scooch it out of the way? Also how do you split it... I know you can delete a bit to make a hole, but deleteing is a nono.

2. So you moved all your nav mesh out of the way of your build... what if you have a clump of it that you don't want, due to it being in a rather bad spot? Is there a safe way to remove or disable it? I have a large section of mesh that ends up going down a very steep hill as well as ending in a sort of a 'dead end hall'.

3. Is it safe to fill in holes in the existing mesh? I know it's safe to add mesh onto the existing.. and hole filling should be the same right?

4. What is a good methood to navmeshing stairways? I've found at times it seems npc's have a hard time going up and down them. I do mean one large continueus mesh from bottom up the steps and onward. But some times I've noticed npc's just.. dislike them.. and end up teleporting instead. This is seen in one stairway in my owlrock mod, the stairs leading up to the upper area. I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong with these as the other stairs work fine and are meshed the same way. Are the npc's just being picky?

5. The biggest thing... It seems like whenever I edit an outside mesh, all connecting cells also get an edit when there never touched and I am inside the intended cell while editing. These edits don't get cleaned with tes5edit either unless I do it manually. The cells get a *, but going into the cell nothing in the objects list or navmesh has a *... so I dunno whats up. Anyone else have this? Or knows what causes it?

 

Um.... Are we talking about Navmesh that came with Skyrim? I know for sure you can delete your own Navmeshing to your heart's content. But even in Skyrim it shouldn't be a big deal. I mean, just like putting a building down somewhere. You mess with the landscape, even the shape of the world. But it doesn't matter because those changes only exist in your mod.

When I did my Navmesh in my custom building, the auto Navmesh did dumb things like put mesh in the fireplace. I deleted a lot of it, moved vertices and then created new triangles and filled them.

Stairs can be a pain in the ass. You need to have a vertices at the top and one at the bottom. You select them both by clicking one, holding CTRL and then double clicking the other. You then may have to massage thing so the Navmesh isn't too high off the floor -- that was the problem I had the first time I did it.

 

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On 1/6/2016 at 1:32 AM, TigerCubofPNW said:

Um.... Are we talking about Navmesh that came with Skyrim? I know for sure you can delete your own Navmeshing to your heart's content. But even in Skyrim it shouldn't be a big deal. I mean, just like putting a building down somewhere. You mess with the landscape, even the shape of the world. But it doesn't matter because those changes only exist in your mod.

When I did my Navmesh in my custom building, the auto Navmesh did dumb things like put mesh in the fireplace. I deleted a lot of it, moved vertices and then created new triangles and filled them.

Stairs can be a pain in the ass. You need to have a vertices at the top and one at the bottom. You select them both by clicking one, holding CTRL and then double clicking the other. You then may have to massage thing so the Navmesh isn't too high off the floor -- that was the problem I had the first time I did it.

 

........yes I am talking about Skyrim, that is kinda why [Sky] is in the title.

So outside that none of this answered a single question. You speak as if I don't know how to Navmesh, I do. I just wanted to ask a few questions that have pizzled me about it. Like can you cut a hole in the existing mesh or will it throw a fit for you doing such. Or how to get rid of bits that are in the way that moving the mesh could end up squishing other parts of the mesh badly.

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4 hours ago, IronBlockGames said:

........yes I am talking about Skyrim, that is kinda why [Sky] is in the title.

So outside that none of this answered a single question. You speak as if I don't know how to Navmesh, I do. I just wanted to ask a few questions that have pizzled me about it. Like can you cut a hole in the existing mesh or will it throw a fit for you doing such. Or how to get rid of bits that are in the way that moving the mesh could end up squishing other parts of the mesh badly.

Wow, that was a little hostile...

I didn't ask if this was a Skyrim question, I was trying to see if you were referring to Navmesh that came with the original game or your own Navmesh. And mostly my question came about because I've never heard or seen anything about not deleting existing Navmesh so I wasn't sure what you were referring to.

And I did answer your question when I said I deleted vertices and moves things around and so on without any problems. Which is a direct answer to your question about "can you cut a hole in the existing mesh or will it throw a fit for you doing such. " If you're going to ask for help, then it might help if you didn't get so grumpy with someone trying to help you. I'd offer more suggestions but since you "know how to Navmesh" I won't insult your intelligence by pointing out the things you do to delete and modify Navmeshing.

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Existing, default, however you wana call it, it's still skyrims default/existing navmesh, not your own.

Again I'm not talking about deleteing or moving it around. I already know how to move it around, and know you can't delete it less you want a lot of issues.

I am asking about SPLITING the mesh, cutting a hole into it with out deleting parts of it, deleteing navmesh is a big nono. So if I want to place a tree or a wall somewhere I don't have to try and figure out how to pull and drag and badly squish a whole landmass of navmesh to make room for the object. Or even remove a section of mesh safely, as shown, I have a sort of 'dead end path' in my tower mod I'd like to remove, but know I can;'t delete it.

As is trying to move some of the mesh around I am causing insane streaching and bunching in areas, cause I'm trying to take a small hole in the existing mesh that was there for a tree stump and drag it out so it don't clip into the build...  but this is making areas of the mesh hover over a players head height from the ground.

Kf8CEpc.png

yeah, streched badly and a tun of hovering nav mesh. Having to edit the ground to try and pull it up to the mesh, but it'll remove the water thats below it and the flat area it had beside the house.

 

also the question for ladders... yes I know I need them at the top and bottom.

9C97lAK.png

That is how I mesh my stairs. But rather I do it that way, or have single points two at the bottom and two at the top.. it seems some stairs npcs go yep thats fine. others they go derp nope teleport up and down. Like that bottom one works fine.. the top one? teleport! I never get a message that the mesh is too high, they just don't like walking parts it it.

 

Sorry if I come off as hostal right now. I've been having a lot of isues with people not reading what I post and just going on and on about exactly what I said I already did, or something that has nothing to do with what I asked. (like asking for the default keywords for armor frostfall ids to give warmth and coverage to add to a few custom armors that lack it for personal use... and I get 'you cant customize the values'.... I never said I wanted to, nor asking about it.. I wanted the default, armor has more than one keyword to it, what one is it I need to add.. google don't give me the answer. also telling me I'll have to dive into the ck edit the armor isn't the answer... really read what I asked instead of going off on your own thing >.<)

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Did you follow the ck basics course? Lesson 2 and lesson 4  cover the navmesh. The basic about editing existing navmesh is "do not delete the entire navmesh"; beside this, you can edit it by removing part of it or adding to it. The most important thing is that the navmesh is still there, in case a mod would reference it (I have no idea how they would do that but that's the word around the modding community. So.)

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Yes I did follow it,. but it even states deleteing is bad. I'm trying to avoid it but if its best not to delete it and the area you want to mod has no holes or such to use, how do you make room for your added stuff? Or avoid stteching the mesh out to my issue with the shack where it's hovering over ahead high off the ground due to the dip in the land? Outside of editing the land to drag it up.

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1 hour ago, IronBlockGames said:

Yes I did follow it,. but it even states deleteing is bad. I'm trying to avoid it but if its best not to delete it and the area you want to mod has no holes or such to use, how do you make room for your added stuff? Or avoid stteching the mesh out to my issue with the shack where it's hovering over ahead high off the ground due to the dip in the land? Outside of editing the land to drag it up.

From lesson 4... "It is safe to delete individual triangles that are part of the cell mesh but you don't want to wipe out the entire vanilla mesh for that cell."

That supports what the inestimable LadyontheMoon says. You can tweak vanilla mesh all you want, delete vertices, add vertices, delete triangles. Just don't delete the entire vanilla Navmesh in a cell and you're good.

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