BigBossBalrog

Civil War Aftermath OOC #71

384 posts in this topic

"That's what I want for all of the rp's more crazier elements from here on. And less surprise crazy spells that can effectively one shot anyone."

I think that's fair. This isn't meant to detract from your point at all, more something I think you'll find funny. In the novels, Sul killed Umbra (as in, one of the mortals who got possessed by the sword, not the sentient part of the sword itself) by basically waving his hand and liquifying his insides. XD It was a pretty funny since after playing Morrowind and Oblivion, it was obvious from the get-go that even in a 2v1 the good guys were gonna get their asses handed to them by that fucker in close quarters. Then he pulled out this badass spell that was basically every bit as OP as Witch's metallurgy and kicked his ass.

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Rofl XD Well that sort of highlights my point about it not being important as of now. We're all doing our own thing, not interacting as of yet, so for instance, me making Brund eat age literally has no effect on anything but how I'll write a possible confrontation with him and Baldur, unless the foreign leaders also get involved that is, which you never know.

I don't think Balrog would like me coming at him with Brund not knowing at least some of his limitations. I can't kill Dales without his consent of course, but it would make things at least a bit smoother, and less frustrating for hypothetical situations like that.

So, it's not like we gotta change anything as of now, it's just something I think we should keep in mind for the next chapter once paths start being crossed. Especially when I have no idea where that'll take us. I might not plan on fighting Witch now, but there may very well be a day when something my character does demands he try and fight me. Which I'm all for, but not if I have no chance at all whatsoever. Some characters will always be like that, yes. But every last character in the rp shouldn't be.

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Just now, ColonelKillaBee said:

Rofl XD Well that sort of highlights my point about it not being important as of now. We're all doing our own thing, not interacting as of yet, so for instance, me making Brund eat age literally has no effect on anything but how I'll write a possible confrontation with him and Baldur, unless the foreign leaders also get involved that is, which you never know.

I don't think Balrog would like me coming at him with Brund not knowing at least some of his limitations. I can't kill Dales without his consent of course, but it would make things at least a bit smoother, and less frustrating for hypothetical situations like that.

So, it's not like we gotta change anything as of now, it's just something I think we should keep in mind for the next chapter once paths start being crossed. Especially when I have no idea where that'll take us. I might not plan on fighting Witch now, but there may very well be a day when something my character does demands he try and fight me. Which I'm all for, but not if I have no chance at all whatsoever. Some characters will always be like that, yes. But every last character in the rp shouldn't be.

Well, LOL, don't have to worry about me. The only one who has a spotless record so far is Avitus, (And he's running away most of the time) Lorgar's gotten his ass kicked so many times, Dales has been beaten up. LOL.

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Rofl yes, to your credit you have done quite well with letting Lorgar be overcome when the odds were very much against him, be it by his own mistakes or what have you.

Crippling insanity's a strong counter to monster strength. Usually anyway, lol.

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My shadow magic stuff has the benefit of having one super powerful but pretty disinterested in fighting dude, and then some people just now learning it. Morane is able to use it but she's sort of naturally inclined and so picked it up faster, and as has been shown it's not without its limitations and dangers. While the others learning haven't shown much besides that one dude taking the most cursory step, and Morane took care of him lol. So it'll be a while yet before the shadow mages become anywhere close to the level of Brund or Krojun or whoever.

Although they all were at least decent knights, mages, spellswords, nightblades, etc. before they started shadow mage training. So it's just their shadow magic that isn't a threat right now. 

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As it stands I too trust everyone to cooperate and of course be wary for the most part of going too far. At the very least the conversation alone should have people keep themselves in check a little more effectively than before simply because it's on the mind, without actually having to do anything "official".

As an INTP that hates micromanaging and planning, that's more than enough for me. Later down the line if it comes up, the metallurgy thing can be given established weaknesses. I do remember for instance Witchie stating in his post that it took a large pool of magicka and he had to break his rule of conserving magicka to do it, so there's that at least.

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As for OP mages. Ever since Endar picked and thrashed around Mila with little effort and Winvale altering the properties of a knight's armor even without a wave of the hand I feel worrying about projectiles that can be dodged would be a very sudden and video gamy shift. I even asked Doc about the metallurgy spell before posting and he said I should stop worrying and go wild. 

Overall if you want to kill a powerful mage without bringing your own you should pull some kind of surprise attack. Either some kind of assassination attempt or to get them out of position and surround and dogpile them before they can realize they're surrounded. Though as for the second one there's also a chance the mage will simply flee with a recall spell. 

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33 minutes ago, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

Ever since Endar picked and thrashed around Mila with little effort

That one's from the games. Granted, vampires do it, but I don't see why it would be implausible for a skilled mage to be capable of the same. It's still just a spell.

33 minutes ago, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

I even asked Doc about the metallurgy spell before posting and he said I should stop worrying and go wild. 

But yeah, in fact I even said there and here that I thought it was awesome. I'm a fan of using spells that are more creative than the typical "fireball, ice spike, heal, armor" that make up the majority of magical combat. Adds variety and makes the scenes more entertaining.

33 minutes ago, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

Overall if you want to kill a powerful mage without bringing your own you should pull some kind of surprise attack. Either some kind of assassination attempt or to get them out of position and surround and dogpile them before they can realize they're surrounded. Though as for the second one there's also a chance the mage will simply flee with a recall spell. 

I imagine that there are ways to prevent a recall spell from taking effect (besides the obvious silence). There are lots of rituals or magical instruments in the lore that we have no use for in gameplay that exist specifically to counter magic. The Legion has access to tools that can keep others from scrying on them, for an example. And we have seen instances of daedra trapping portals so that the people teleporting through them get cut off. I imagine that there would be viable ways to prevent someone from recalling out of a certain area if you prepared the area in advance. If not, then Thalmor and Imperial spies would pretty much constantly be popping back and forth.

We already established that with the White Gold Tower in the RP, at least. With there being wards in place that keep folks from teleporting in or out of it.

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5 minutes ago, The_Good_Doctor said:

I imagine that there are ways to prevent a recall spell from taking effect (besides the obvious silence). There are lots of magical rituals or instruments in the lore that we have no use for in gameplay that exist specifically to counter magic. The Legion has access to tools that can keep others from scrying on them, for an example. And we have seen instances of daedra trapping portals so that the people teleporting through them get cut off. I imagine that there would be viable ways to prevent someone from recalling out of a certain area if you prepared the area in advance. If not, then Thalmor and Imperial spies would pretty much constantly be popping in and out.

I've personally wondered a bit about silencing. I'm guessing it doesn't work if the target got some personal ward up to protect against magic attacks. Which would explain why silence isn't used as much against powerful mages. Has also had this idea that there are various forms of silence magic, one being that you strangle the flow of magicka of the caster so they can't access the energy required for spells. 

I've also had this idea for an anchoring spells that would, as you say, prevent teleportation. It came up in a discussion I had with balrog a long time ago about his vampire character but never expanded beyond the basic idea. So having rituals with the same effect but for an area I see as viable. I guess it could also work as gate in which some select people are still allowed to teleport within the area?

Edited by Witchking_of_Angmar
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10 minutes ago, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

I'm guessing it doesn't work if the target got some personal ward up to protect against magic attacks. Which would explain why silence isn't used as much against powerful mages.

That's how I imagine it. Wards basically trump everything magical as long as they're strong enough to hold. Silence spells are also pretty high level in the games so there's a good chance that your average hedge wizard or university battlemage isn't capable of casting them.

We've debated on how silence works before and never really came to an agreement. I think it works the way you suggest, myself. Or close enough that the distinction really doesn't matter.

10 minutes ago, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

I guess it could also work as gate in which some select people are still allowed to teleport within the area?

Don't see any reason why that wouldn't be possible.

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17 minutes ago, The_Good_Doctor said:

We already established that with the White Gold Tower in the RP, at least. With there being wards in place that keep folks from teleporting in or out of it.

I think we established that there are wards to prevent unlawful magic by non-authorized users. Though I remember balrog's vampire character teleporting in and out at will without ever having been granted authorization. Though I also remember balrog talking about how he's very different. I don't know how vampire powers compare to more conventional magic. 

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Just now, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

I think we established that there are wards to prevent unlawful magic by non-authorized users. Though I remember balrog's vampire character teleporting in and out at will without ever having been granted authorization. Though I also remember balrog talking about how he's very different. I don't know how vampire powers compare to more conventional magic. 

Guess it depends on the vampire. There's a pretty big difference between some peasant who moved into the sewers after getting bitten last summer and a vampire who's been around for hundreds of years and has used that time to hone his skills and mastery of magic. There's even a difference in their ashes, considering that there are some powerful potions that require an especially ancient vampire's ashes, and not just any old one will do.

Though I'd imagine that even they should have trouble just popping into the WGT considering it's supposed to be among the most secure places in the world. Maybe Lorgar left a magical back door open for him.

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Just now, The_Good_Doctor said:

Though I'd imagine that even they should have trouble just popping into the WGT considering it's supposed to be among the most secure places in the world. Maybe Lorgar left a magical back door open for him.

I highly doubt Lorgar knows how to handle the wards. It's also been stated that Krojun has been in charge of handling the wards since Dales moved into the tower. At this point I'm willing to chalk things up as no one quite knowing what the exact rules were.

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Just now, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

I highly doubt Lorgar knows how to handle the wards. It's also been stated that Krojun has been in charge of handling the wards since Dales moved into the tower. At this point I'm willing to chalk things up as no one quite knowing what the exact rules were.

Though Lorgar did have some of those Bloodwolf people loyal to him who could've had a better understanding of magic than he does. Admittedly, it could be a bit of a stretch that one would be good enough to crack a ward put up by Krojun of all people, but I think it's a better explanation than them not being strong enough to keep out a vampire at all.

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I'm more willing to either retcon it or say it's so unconventional that it transcends the normal laws of magic. Though I think that's more a discussion to have with balrog. 

Also one reason I had Krojun take a liking to war machines is because he figures a continuous barrage of heavy rocks will keep even powerful mages on the defensive. I'd also like if war machines became Cyrodiil's speciality to distinguish them more from the others.

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7 minutes ago, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

I'd also like if war machines became Cyrodiil's speciality to distinguish them more from the others.

They had awesome siege engines and equipment in Lord of Souls. Mages made them levitate along with half an army to storm the flying city.

They got their butts whooped. But the concept was really cool. 

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32 minutes ago, The_Good_Doctor said:

They had awesome siege engines and equipment in Lord of Souls. Mages made them levitate along with half an army to storm the flying city.

Any special kind of war machines or were they relatively standard catapults?

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3 hours ago, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

As for OP mages. Ever since Endar picked and thrashed around Mila with little effort and Winvale altering the properties of a knight's armor even without a wave of the hand I feel worrying about projectiles that can be dodged would be a very sudden and video gamy shift. I even asked Doc about the metallurgy spell before posting and he said I should stop worrying and go wild. 

Overall if you want to kill a powerful mage without bringing your own you should pull some kind of surprise attack. Either some kind of assassination attempt or to get them out of position and surround and dogpile them before they can realize they're surrounded. Though as for the second one there's also a chance the mage will simply flee with a recall spell. 

Well I for one am not a fan of that. It in my opinion is just too much for the rp. 

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Even if it's videogamey to want to put a leash on stuff like that from here on, I think it necessary be it official or unofficial. This is sort of a game anyway, a writing one.

Its one thing in a TES book to have something insane like that, but our rp? That's also something I feel needs to be brought up with me as well in the future. I do trust Docs judgement but we differ on certain points at times. Bman too. I'd never have approved that spell personally. 

Its already in now though which is why I don't mind it but I think it needs to be quite limited.

Im okay with cutting loose but that's one of those moments Doc mentioned where Witch pulls out a powerful spell, a godly one previously not established he was capable of. That needs to be called out. I admittedly didn't because no one else cared but again, someone's gotta be the bad guy. He can already suck souls summon blizzards and giant killer werewolves. 

I don't think it unreasonable to want to at the very least nerf this one. Too much potential for abuse. 

Edit: actually I'll be honest, I'm not really fine with it despite already being in, now that I've had time to sleep on it. The idea of any ability out there that can't be avoided even at a distance is just too crazy. I think the discussion of it being removed should be talked about at least even if it makes y'all unhappy with me.

Edited by ColonelKillaBee
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Taking control of the metal in someone's armor is practically only slightly different from telekineses. So you could technically crush a man with only telekineses, which Endar has shown he's most likely able to do given how he showed he could toss around a person till they break every bone in their body. 

Also I am now letting loose because of the precedence set by Winvale and Endar. Whom you haven't shown any concerns with before despite them having shown that they can manipulate and possibly even kill people with nary a wave of a hand. So unless we decide to nerf all magic and all powerful mages, I will take some new creative liberties to make magic more inventive and less boring. 

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Not to mention the mechanics of the spell, requiring large amounts of magicka and, while working at a distance, still having a range would mean it's not all powerful. Just very powerful, but no more so than any of the other powerful mages and their spells, or shouts. I think we shouldn't hew too close to the games for magic considering how limiting that would be, and how boring. And this spell in particular could easily be something Krojun created, a combination telekinesis and transmutation (or similar metal alteration spell). Since spell crafting is a thing

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38 minutes ago, Witchking_of_Angmar said:

Taking control of the metal in someone's armor is practically only slightly different from telekineses. So you could technically crush a man with only telekineses, which Endar has shown he's most likely able to do given how he showed he could toss around a person till they break every bone in their body. 

Also I am now letting loose because of the precedence set by Winvale and Endar. Whom you haven't shown any concerns with before despite them having shown that they can manipulate and possibly even kill people with nary a wave of a hand. So unless we decide to nerf all magic and all powerful mages, I will take some new creative liberties to make magic more inventive and less boring. 

Uh no you won't, not without GM approval, because Witch is already strong as is without "taking liberties" further.

Now, since the subject is brought up, I'm all for limiting or even ridding that sort of thing from the rp. Like I said, I'm not a fan of it. I didn't mention anything about those characters because they're far removed and not Pov characters. Endar sort of is but he's in the background. Even so, like I said I don't like the mechanic for anyone.

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I think that creative liberties in the rp have already been taken well before Doc and btcollins characters anyway.

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