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Another modder leaves the community, The owner of ORE,Meek/S


Euther
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Thread started on another forum by CNC. I just copied it here to save some time... :drool:

The owner of ORE (oblivion real estate) will be closeing soon as of being a driven away by flamers

as Shezrie/Meek was trying to protect her/his work

as ORE may not be on for that Long I will post the news from the site

I am sorry to announce that I (Shezrie) have left the Oblivion community.I have been a part of this community since 2004 and got my start in Morrowind modding. Modding has been a creative outlet for me and is something I very much enjoy. In 2006 I wanted to give something to the great community and created ORE followed by MORE a year later. It has been over two years now that ORE has been going and we have had our ups and downs, but we have always had a large group of supporters that have stuck with us through it all. ORE has been a LOT of work for me over the years, yet it has been a lot of fun.Sadly current events have left me with no option other then to withdraw from the community, simply because it has become no fun anymore. On the contrary it has become a bit of a nightmare over the last six months. I quit modding publicly because people would not follow my wishes regarding my work. It was stolen, re uploaded regardless of the readme and the latest event has been the last straw for me. To me it seems that this has become a community of grab what you can and sod the author. I am not the first to withdraw from this community for these very reasons and in fact am following in the footsteps of JannixQuin, Giskard and a host of others who have been unnecessarily insulted to the point of leaving. I have one warning for you that comes from my concern for the community that I have worked so hard for and given so much too, out of my love for it: Don't let this happen to any more modders. Please. This continuing trend has many modders leaving. Consider this, why would anyone upload to the public, work they have put months and even years of heart and soul into, when they will be taken for granted, disrespected and downright abused. Don't take modders for granted, they are offering their hard work for free for you to enjoy.That said, the community is not comprised entirely of abusive people, there are many wonderful people out there and I thank you for all your support and encouragement of both ORE and my own modding. I am sorry it has come to this however when stealing my work becomes okay even in the face of clear proof the work is mine, then it is time for me to leave because I no longer gain any enjoyment from it. On the contrary I get abuse until it becomes miserable just coming on line. Couple that with real life stress and stress trying to keep the work up to date on ORE and this is just not good. On the contrary it is overwhelming. Modding is supposed to be about enjoyment, supposed to be a pleasant hobby, when it becomes more of a nightmare then it is not worth doing, period.So what about ORE you say? Well it will be closed in a day or so. The only ones able to access it are those with valid memberships. The only reason the site is even staying in that form is because people have current memberships. When the term and money runs out the site will be removed. The site will not be updated and the reason it is not left open to all as it is at the moment, is because there will be no one to maintain it and keep it safe. The fate of MORE is still being decided.I have no idea when or if I will ever come back to the community, it is unlikely. In the meantime, take care everyone.

This is a shame... She is a great modder...

Does any of you see this "flamming" issue as a growning trend?

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I have had my fair share of *#!&@ people in regards to my mods.

I finally decided instead of quiting the community, I would release my mods and let people do what-ever they wanted with my works. But, I will only support the mod at the one site I frequent and upload to, TESNexus. And only until I really am tired of it all.

The TESAlliance has re-invigorated me to play with it some more. I have a couple of mods in the works, the most visible being "Clocks for My Houses". And the unknown "House of Heavenly Pleasures".

I say good luck to Shezrie and Meek. Modding is a tough road to follow for very long.

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I saw that thread yesterday. I understand the frustration and at the same time, can't help thinking maybe they're taking it a bit too seriously. I mean, we're doing this for pleasure, ours and others. :) I was very upset when I found a guy had swiped my Daedra Guide for his mod and not only not credited me but taken it for himself.

I'm not going to pull my guides down on account of it though. In a way it's flattering that someone considers my work good enough to 'borrow' and pass off as his own. LOL and anyone who knows me knows who it really belongs to. :)

I wish Shezrie luck with whatever they go on to do! Perhaps they'll wander back eventually.

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I do not think there is a growing trend in flamers and trolls. I think there is a growing trend in sensitivity to it. We modders need to band together and take pride in our work, our craft, and each other. Hence, why I started the Alliance.

Incidents like this one, like Shezrie leaving, or JannixQuinn, or any of them, they only weaken the community and hasten the day when our strength is broken. The modders who give up are the greatest danger to the community, not the trolls and flamers. There will always be critics, but the reality is, those who can do and those who can't criticize.

Allied, modders will always be strong. :)

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Great words to live by, DarkRider.

I'm hesitant to say much about my view of the incident. I can report that as a house-a-holic I joined Shezrie's forum soon after I figured out there was a modding community out here, and she has decided to soldier on after all.

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I kept my mouth shut on this on the official forums, but as far as I can tell it's a just storm in a bowl of water. I've seen Shezrie act many times on emotional impulses, saying she'd quit modding on several locations, when something happened. Out of curiousity I had a look at the village from that guy Poolace or something and in all honesty it didn't look like her town at all. I guess the moderators at TESNexus (which are respected community members) didn't find anything either. I haven't got much sympathy for Poolace, the way he started bashing Shezries town (which was a lot better in my opinion) in his opening post, but that's really besides the point.

Frankly, I really don't care who's leaving or not anymore. You want to leave? Fine. Wanna come back? Also great...

There will always be people leaving for several reasons (heck, I'd rather see someone leave over flaming than having to quit because of personal circumstances, which are often a lot worse than online flaming or thievery issues), while new modders will rise to bring their vision on Oblivion modding. Gee, it's just like the real world!

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After reading that, the name of The Elder Scrolls Alliance, has a whole new meaning! It is sad that many great modders who have been modding for years leave for any reason at all, other then they just got bored, but it is also sad that the amount of modders is decreasing faster then in is increasing.

It can be hard, when looking at "Latest Files" on Tesnexus, not to find a "cheat" mod every page. That, or you find beginner modders attempting to do something far to large for them, and they simply lose interest because it is taking to long, or they get stuck somewhere.

Hopefully, The Alliance will quickly fix this problem, for two reasons.

1. DarkRider seems to be a great Admin, and I have a feeling he, and other moderators, will prevent unneeded flamming, and hence, make sure that modders never leave for that reason. And I don't think he will ever ignore the forum, and just appoint Moderators to moderate, but he himself will moderate as well. :)

2. The Voice Actors Project will be a great resource for all modders, new or old, and will help make every mod better.

3. The Modding Courses. For obvious reasons. A place for people to get all the knowledge they need to start a good mod, as well as a resource for those who are having trouble.

So yes, I think that the Oblivion Modding Community is on the "brink". But the Alliance gives me hope!

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I think that regardless of whether a modder is a bit of "neurotic artist", the case of Shezrie vs. Poolace is an example of a case of theft. I don't think it matters that he changed his village after the fact, to look different from hers, he admitted in public that he built it on her landscape. In my opinion, that's the endof. I take great pride in my ability to be an impartial judge, I'm staking my career on it, in fact. I'm extremely disappointed in TesNexus' lack of prudence in this matter.

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oh wow, another one goes down....at this rate all we'll have are the modder's here left by TES5.

ive been lucky never to really any bad comments. i also only upload to TESNexus, that way i can say if its not from there, its not my job to help you. a bit blunt, but true.

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I know someone who frequents the ORE site and forums, and he said things were starting to go down hill just like a previous even he and I had been through about a year ago. Posting going missing, egos starting to flair up...

Not saying i'm glad to see anyone leave, as i know each one that leaves hurts the community. But then again, sometimes its for the better.

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Quote

I know someone who frequents the ORE site and forums, and he said things were starting to go down hill just like a previous even he and I had been through about a year ago. Posting going missing, egos starting to flair up...Not saying i'm glad to see anyone leave, as i know each one that leaves hurts the community. But then again, sometimes its for the better.


I haven't noticed anything more than a little bump in the road, which in my experience of almost 12 years frequenting internet forums devoted to all kinds of interests, is normal on every forum.
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  • 2 weeks later...

I had a run in with meek a while back. I had downloaded one of her town mods and was disappointed that it had meshes and textures strewn everywhere and not in one folder. The cavern tiles did not line up properly 'texture' wise. There were several bugs I 'asked' about on the bethsoft forum. Her response was that she was leaving the community and removing all her mods. I quickly appologized. I had 'arrogantly' let her know about issues or failings I saw in the mod. I never downloaded anything of hers again, or replied to any posts she left. I felt this was an 'unstable' modder, and should be avoided. I even refused to be a judge on their website for buildings when asked. It was a headache I wanted to avoid. All my comments were nice and diplomatic. I did not want to ruffle feathers any more than necessary.

As always, I am sorry to see people leave, no matter what their excuse is. but its life. There are always others ready to replace them. Its a cycle and I have been around long enough to see it play out several times. Even I will one day fall to the wayside. But, my work will live on beyond my time, where their work will not, as it has been removed from history. I am just filled with sadness at the lose, but hope for the future.

And if any of my comments have offended you, then I am sorry. I did not make them in anger or to upset anyone. They are just my true feelings on the matter.

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As a long time member and supporter of ORE (and a member of the ORE Hall of Modders :lol:. I am truly saddened to see Shezrie go. She was more than a modder or forum administrator. Her creation, ORE, was the center of house modding for the Oblivion community.

Yes, poolace is an ass, but he is not the only factor in Shezrie's decision. It's a combination of a lot of things. Is her decision partly emotional? Yes. You can't create what she did (ORE, MORE, plus mods) without being emotionally involved; there's no money in it--in fact, just the opposite.

I will remember Shezrie as someone who made our community richer because she was part of it for a while.

As far as intellectual property goes in the modding arena, there are some, such as poolace, who know what they are doing--they're just plain thieves. Surprisingly, there are others who genuinely don't understand. Some time ago I submitted a greenhouse as a modder's resource to MORE. As most understand, the intent of such a resource is for other modders to incorporate the resource in their own creation, usually with a brief credit in the Readme. I happened to be surfing TES Nexus a few months later and was surprised to see a mod posted that was just my greenhouse with really nothing else! Both I and Shezrie added comments describing the true nature of the "mod", but did not report it. It was clear that the poster really didn't know any better. I had hoped to include the url here, but apparently it has now been removed. I see intent as an important aspect of any inappropriate use of all or part of another's mod.

@DarkRider: It seems like a discussion of what is, and is not, an appropriate use of someone else's work might be fruitful here. Rather than hijacking this thread, maybe you could suggest where in the forum it might best be?

* I'm starting Humility 101 next week--I promise.

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It seems like a discussion of what is, and is not, an appropriate use of someone else's work might be fruitful here. Rather than hijacking this thread, maybe you could suggest where in the forum it might best be?

Not really anything to discuss.

Technically, all mods belong to Bethesda. However, it is the long standing unwritten law of the Modding Community that we respect the rights of modders for their intellectual contributions. This includes, mods, patches, resources, images, etc. Here at the Alliance we have a zero tolerance for intellectual property theft. For now, it is included in the Wisdom thread in the Study Hall to school our new modders

When we upgrade and bring mod/image hosting here, the zero tolerance policy will be amended into the terms of usage agreement all members agree to when joining and will be reprinted in the forum rules sticky! Violators will have to find a new community. The Alliance is here to teach new modders and to give modders a sanctuary; their rights to their intellectually property will be fiercely defended. :lol:

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@Darkrider, I'm glad to here the Alliance's stand on this. However, I do have a question where I would like to get the opinion of other modders. Since the Tavern is designated as the place for community discussions, I'll post a new topic there. Please let me know if it would fit better elsewhere.

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[qupte] @Darkrider, I'm glad to here the Alliance's stand on this. However, I do have a question where I would like to get the opinion of other modders. Since the Tavern is designated as the place for community discussions, I'll post a new topic there. Please let me know if it would fit better elsewhere.

Of course, the tavern is the place for such discussions, but I encourage all who participate to do so in the spirit of sharing an open discussion and not to let things spiral into an argument or a bash session of other modders. :lol:

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Wow, what to say really.

First let me clear things up as I would hate for misunderstanding. I am Meek and Shezrie, one person. :pints: Thank you to those who have written kind and supportive words here in this thread.

The Poolace situation had been going on behind closed doors for well over six months now and had gotten to the point where I dreaded coming online. There is not half the story publicly known. The village Poolace uploaded was not my village remade and the Lakewood Village references were purposefully put there to deceive me and cause trouble.

Couple that with an extremely stressful real life where I have faced literal homeless a few times over the past year and an unbearable living situation and the loss of a few loved ones. This is merely a statement of facts, not a plea for sympathy. Simply to let you know that other issues were most definitely a factor.

I could not simply up and leave without explanation. If I just modded then I would have just packed up and left without a word. However I run Oblivion's Real Estate and Modders of ORE and a forum and I cannot simply vanish without explanation. If my parting words were construed as a plea for attention then that is furthest from the truth. Like I said on my site, I get more then enough attention and I am a very private person. I do not consider myself a particularily well known modder, catering as I do to a certain smaller section of the Oblivion community, so did not consider my removal of my modding to be of much consequence, however ORE is a very popular site with thousands of users, all owed an explanation.

If I am considered an 'unstable' modder then so be it. I am glad to now know how you stand on all this, Williesea, as I had taken your apologies at face value and assumed you had no issue with me, hence the invitation to be an ORE judge. I however have no issue with you at all.

I have indeed decided to stay. I decided to stay because of the ORE community and ORE, a community made stronger and closer by the recent troubles and attacks on all of us, not just me. Every forum goes through such a thing in it's life, it is how they deal with it and whether they are able to emerge stronger from it that is the real teller.

As for missing posts on the forum...that is due to Proboards, no post is removed without explanation. Proboards has been a little unsteady recently I have noticed, especially when I am missing pms and my own posts.

Yes the Oblivion community has lost quite a few modders recently and rather then blame those modders and accuse them all of a sudden inexplicable spate of over sensitivity, I would be more inclined to look at it logically and come to the conclusion that the atmosphere has changed for modders and may not be as friendly as it once was. For myself I have been modding since 2005 for Morrowind and Oblivion and have taken my share of criticism that I have laughed off or taken seriously and made needed corrections. As has Jannix Quin and others. However when that criticism becomes constant outright abuse it can get to much. Take the case of Alien Slof who temporarily quit due to abuse after years of modding. That makes how many modders recently? Something is rotten here, there is a sudden stream of modders leaving and you cannot logically put that down to a 'sudden over sensitivity' on the modder's side.

And yet there is nothing any one single person can do about it. You all cannot go out there and change all the nasty folks on the web. However we can perhaps demonstrate a little more understanding when a modder chooses to leave and respect their decision rather then ridicule them for their choice, understanding that factors we may not be aware of may be involved. This is a general statement and discussion, aimed at providing a different perspective and not at any particular post and certainly not at any person.

Since this whole Poolace affair I have analyzed my own attitude to my modding and ORE and realized that a change in my own attitude was in order. Yes I had let the naysayers and real life get to me over time. I have realized what I was doing and how it was affecting my own community of ORE. A community built with the intent of equality, respect, friendliness and sharing the sheer love of modding as I am sure this community is. And I have eaten humble pie and publicly acknowledged that a change in my own attitude was in order. Which has actually, to my surprise, earned me even more ridicule and even more insults from those out side my community, can't please them all. Yes I let it all get to me, though it seemed like it was like a barrage of unassailable negativity at one time, the likes of which I have not seen in all my days on the net. However for the sake of my community and the wonderful people there and for the sheer love of modding I will be sticking around and making my mods available to all again. Trying to recapture that basic enjoyment of modding and releasing work that I had before all the drama and negativity rose.

Anyway, I had no idea that this community existed until today and am glad to see it. We need strong, well run communities like this if we are to continue to create an environment that inspires and motivates modders.

Hopefully this will clear up things a bit more.

:pints:

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Welcome to the Alliance Shezrie! :pints: I'm glad to see you decided to ignore the naysayers and stay with us. Real life can certainly affect our time in the community, I know. I was offline for a year thanks to real life.

I hope you find a happy home here with us and come around often! We're a friendly bunch. Welcome again!

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