Vince

I expect to have the official signup for the modeling class ready by next week (about Nov. 24th). It will run through the end of November, with the class starting the first week of December. By officially signing up for the class, you agree to get and install the required software or equivalents (all free), to make an honest effort to study the suggested reading and do the class exercises and, where you can, post to help other students keep up. In return you will be a full member of the modeling class with access for both reading and posting. If you complete all the classes and exercises you will receive a TES Alliance modeling medal. Most importantly, once you have completed the class, you should have sufficient understanding that you can continue expanding your 3D modeling skill on your own, concentrating in the areas that interest you most. This will not be a class where I, as the instructor, speak ex cathedra about how you should model this way and that. On the contrary, the class will be a group of modders who are determined to substantially improve their 3D modeling skills. I, having a bit more modeling experience and having taught a modeling class before, will be your guide. I will prepare the material for the first four sessions. We, as a class, will decide what to do for the fifth and final session. The modeling class forum will be open to anyone as read only So, someone with a good deal of modeling experience could "audit" the class where they might find a few new tidbits of information. In the first session, we will make a wooden stool. The fit, finish, and level of detail will be at least as good as the items in vanilla Oblivion. We will cover basic modeling, UV mapping, vertex painting, extracting and using textures from the Oblivion .bsa compressed files, mesh scrubbing, and adding collision in NifScope. Here is a screen shot of the stool: In session 2 we will create a wavy bladed long dagger. We will create an graceful pitcher in session 3 and a vine with leaves in session 4. As noted, the class will decide what we do in session 5. To prepare for the class, you should download and read the Subdivision Modeling Primer: Subdivision Modeling Primer Also, go to the following site and download Chapter 3- Creating and Editing Objects (it's a .pdf). CD Schools Blender Manual If you are very new to 3D modeling you might benefit from reading The Very Basics of 3D Modeling for Games in the Modeling class forum. We will use Blender as our 3D modeling program. If you haven't already, you will need to update to version 2.48. Major changes were introduced in 2.46 and the following 2.47 and 2.48 squished most of the bugs. You will also need a 2D paint program. Your best bet is Photoshop, the GIMP, or Paint.Net. Paint.Net can read and write Direct Draw Surface (.dds) files directly. For the others, you will need the .dds plugin or you can use DDS Converter 2 (free from the net). Of course you will need NifScope, version 1.02 or later. Lastly, you will need a program to extract textures and meshes from Bethesda's compressed (.bsa) format. I use BSA Commander although BSA Unpacker should also work. Both are available free from the net. Although not absolutely essential, having a way to convert bump maps to normal maps would be useful. There are plugins for all three listed 2D programs. If you would rather, you can use Nvidia's Texture Tools 2, also available free on the net. While you're there, check out Nvidia's DDS Thumbnail Viewer. With it you can see .dds file thumbnails in directory listings just like .jpg, .bmp, etc. If you have any questions about this, you should post them this weekend before the official sign-up starts.

You do not need any rigging or bones to apply an animated texture. There are two kinds: transform and flip. The transform type only needs one texture. You controll its movement over the mesh relative to its UV mapped position as a function of time. The flip type uses a sequence of texture maps, like a short movie clip. These are explained in the CS Wiki. Look under Working with Nifs 201.

As WT said, you have to make your own. Here's one example. First, a texture of a stone floor from the web: In this case, to make a bump map you actually have to blur the original image a bit. Remember, the normal map encodes slopes (tilts) to the surface, so if the bump map has an area of white pixels right next to black pixels with no shading in between, that corresponds to a vertical slope which the normal map can't handle. So, I converted the original image to shades of grey and blurred it a little bit (using a Gaussian blur). After this, I adjusted the contrast and brightness to create this bump map: Next I converted the bump map into a normal map. I did it with Nvidia's Texture Tools 2 (free from the web). You can do it with the GIMP normal map plugin. I also changed the hue and contrast of the origional image for my diffuse map. In the screen shot below, the right half is textured with both the diffuse map and normal map. The left half is just the normal map with a uniform dark grey diffuse map. As WT said, it takes a little practice and experimentation. Well, I've got to get back to RL and preparing for the modeling class.

I haven't used the GIMP plugin, but understand what it does. Maybe that would help. What is does is convert a bump map into a normal map. A bump map is a grey scale image where the brightness corresponds to height above the surface. So, black represents low spots and white represents high spots. Here is a bump map of our favorite TES Alliance dragon: What the plugin does is convert that to a normal map, like this: Once you have the normal map to go along with the diffuse map you can apply it to your model''s surface for the appearence of a surface relief, like this: . I hope this helps.

Running4Cover, Although glowmaps can be useful, normal maps are essential. As a first step, you should really understand what a normal map is and how it works. Once you understand that, making normal maps, in a variety of ways, becomes much easier. Once you have that overall understanding, you will see why it's nearly impossible to edit one, but not that hard to make a new one. A good place to start is: Ben Cloward's Normal Map Tutorials Good luck.

Quote I'd like to join up. I haven't tried my hand at modeling for years, so I'd say my skill level is about 2/10. I know what extrude means, but that's about it. I'd have to stick with Blender too, as 3Dmax is beyond my means. Thanks, Spurgamer.Glad to hear from you. We will have offical registration in a couple of weeks. I hope you will jjoin, I think it's likely that you will get a good bit out of the class. 'Until then. Good luck.

In NifScope, under the NiTriStrips for your mesh, you should have a NiTexturingProperty block. In its details, the value for Has Base Texture should be 'Yes'. Just under that, if you expand Base Texture, the Source should be a NiSourceTexture block. The NiSourceTexture block should start with 'textures'. For example 'texturesmynewmodvinestem01.dds'. If it doesn't, click on the purple flower icon and browse to your texture. Good luck.

Quote It's not that I can't make a weapon, it's the right texturing to apply to it that troubles me. I want the blade part of the weapon to reflect and refract light every time you move it.That won't be covered in the modeling class, but may be covered in the texturing class that "will be opening soon". Of course, if you teach that class, you'll have to figure that out yourself.

@WT, I'm glad you had a chance to help. I've been over my head modeling vines (I hate vines now). I too was glad to see the new NifTools MAX exporter. The gmax version works fine too, including collision. BTW, I would have never thought one could actually edit the name of a .nif file block to change its nature. I tried it (bhkRigidBody > bhkRigidBodyT) and it works just like you said. That will come in very handy.

silver_fox_rival, you certainly have many skills well beyond what we will cover in the modeling classes here. Frankly, I'm surprised that you would have trouble making any weapon. Of course, you are welcome in the class. Actually, I haven't spent much time making weapons myself--at least the kind you might find in Oblivion. I did make a dagger as part of an exploration of Furthorc runes. This might be a good opportunity to state what my plans are for the class. What to cover? There are many ways to make a mesh. You can start with a primitive, or start with a 2D profile and extrude, spin, or sweep it, or start with something other that a mesh, such as Beziers, NURBS, Metaballs, or ZSpheres. We certainly can't cover it all. I believe our goal should be to establish a firm foundation; a 'mental scaffolding', if you will. There are many excellent tutorials available that teach nearly every aspect of 3D modeling. This foundation or scaffolding should provide a place to attach the new information. In other words, we should cover enough so that each student can continue in the particular direction that interest's them using other sources (online tutorials, books, etc.). The class will consist of a series of interactive tutorials. Each will include one or more exercises for the student. If a student has a problem, I and the other students will be available to provide help as needed. In the first class, we will create a simple wooden stool, UV map it, assign a material to it, export it as a .nif file, add a collision primitive, and get it in game as a chair. Things that we will cover in later classes include three different ways of creating collision for Oblivion, the technique of scrubbing meshes--one of the few important areas that has not been well covered in other tutorials. We will cover the basics of extrude, spin, soft selections (what Blender calls proportional editing), vertex painting, and other techniques as we make more challenging 3D models. We will spend a little time on things like poles, quads vs triangles, and other issues that affect the visual quality of the final mesh. We will likely cover some areas beyond this as determined by what the class wants to lean (and the limits of my knowledge).

'Glad to have you aboard Bnnfish. You and your skills are certainly welcome here. I hope you won't mind if we want to pick your brain every once in a while.

Some very nice textures there. You and your skill are certainly welcome here.

Unfortunately, what you describe (where the collision in the cell goes whacky) is typical of what happens when there's a problem with a clutter collision. As I think I mentioned somewhere else, clutter collision is especially tricky. The problem is almost certainly with the bhkRigidBodyT block. If you let 3ds Max create a new one, try copying over the bhkRigidBodyT from the original beef .nif. The only other thing I could suggest is to find a bhkRigidBodyT block from a similar clutter object from vanilla Oblivion. If the Translation and Rotation in the block are all zeros, you could use a bhkRigidBody block from a vanilla object. Good luck, you'll need it. Edit: I should have noted that the only difference between a bhkRigidBody and a bhkRigidBodyT block is Translation and Rotation values only make a difference in a bhkRigidBodyT block. There are completely ignored in a bhkRigidBody block.

Quote Alright so I did that and placed the object in game, the player can pick it up and whatever BUT whenever he "drops" it it seems to only hang in mid air like gravity doesn't affect it. How do i fix that?The key is in the bhkRigidBody or bhkRigidBodyT block. Often the best bet is to copy over a bhkRigidBody(T) from an existing clutter object of about the same size and shape. Also, make sure that BSX flags is set to 3. Usually that's enough, although sometimes you'll get the "hanging in the air" the first time you try to drop it, although it will drop properly after that. In that case, you need to add a 'NiStringExtraData' block. I'm not at my Oblivion computer right now, so that may not be the exact name of the block. If you look at vanilla Oblivion clutter objects, you'll see what I mean (there's a long string of data text like "Mass = 0, bla, bla"). Don't forget to make it a child of the root node.

Quote im pretty much self tought in modelling, might learn some stuff though this.PS: Its not winter here!What modeling software do you use? Can you use Blender? BTW, just cause it'll be summer for you in a month or two, I'll still be freezing my XXXX off--and that hurts! From my point of view, the only purpose of winter is to make my thankful for spring.

In the CS, did you define the object as a misc item (with an icon, etc.)? If you did that, did you create a collision shape? You can not interact with any object in Oblivion that does not have a collision mesh. Collision meshes for clutter items (things you can pick up) can be rather tricky. We'll go over that in the modeling class.

We plan to offer a 3D modeling class, starting in a few weeks. It will most likely be aimed toward the beginning 3D modeler. If you think you might want to participate, please post, noting your current skill level, 3D modeling software (if any), and what you hope to learn. If you are new to 3D modeling, drop by the Modeling Class forum and read the posts there. They may give you a basic understanding of what you will need to learn and some of the free modeling software available.

Hi, Shezrie. 'Glad you're sticking around. I'm also glad to see you here. It does seem like a nice place. BTW, do let me know that you got that MORE thing. Vince

@WT, my bad. I always use "Show Blocks in List". I didn't realize that if one uses "Show Blocks in Tree", the displayed collision order (top to bottom) is exactly the reverse! 'Just wonderful. @Magician, since you are used to using NifScope in the Show Blocks in Tree format, I think you would be best off examining collision sequences in vanilla Oblivion objects to see the correct order, rather than my tutorial (which is all in Show Blocks in List format). WindmillTilter is correct, the issue with your collision for the case in the screen shot is not the order of the blocks; that's fine.

Pool! What Pool? I didn't know we had a pool. Why doesn't anybody tell me these things?

Magician, first yes bit 1 of the BSX Flags enables collision. So 2 is the value you need for your static collision. I understand that your aim now is more toward understanding and building for the future, rather that completing a specific mod right now. With that in mind, I would suggest that you start with a much simpler collision. Collision can be tricky and you are starting out with about as difficult a problem as their can be (mutliple collision materials with generalized triangular collision with MOPPS). Using a car racing analogy, it's like you are starting out with a McLaren F1 car, where maybe a dirt stocker or a formula ford might be a better place to start. Although the decision is clearly up to you, I think you will most likely advance farther sooner by starting simple and buildiung complexity as you successfully complete each step. Without seeing the .nif file directly, I can not know all the possible problems. However, it does appear that your collision order is wrong. Collision sequences are one of the few places in a .nif file where the exact order is essential. I explain the correct order for most collision sequences in Session 2 of my Wings3D for Oblivion tutorial (see: Wings3D4Oblivion). However, you can just as easily examine a similar sequence from a vanilla Oblivion .nif file. I'm at work right now, but if memory serves, for your case the order should be (first to last): hkPackedNiTriStripsData, bhkPackedTriStripsShape, bhkMoppBvTreeShape, bhkRigidBody, bhkCollisionObject. I don't know of any case where the bhkCollisionObject block isn't last. Depending on the version of NifScope you are using, check Spells to see if there is one for reordering collision blocks. In any case, good luck.

Thanks everyone. It's good to have the thoughts of other modders on this subject.

WindmillTilter's suggestions would be a good place to start. Relative to the arrows and walls, is the collision for the walls created from bhkConvexVerticesShapes? bhkConvexVerticesShape blocks do not catch arrows. Also, what is the flag setting in your BSXFlags block? It should be 2 for static objects such as walls. Also, do you need each object to have the correct havok material so it will produce the correct sound when hit or walked on? If not, why is the havok material important? The best solution may depend on what you are trying to accomplish. Good luck.

Welcome aboard Tomusus. Good luck with Blender.

Welcome Magician. I'm new here myself. Good luck on creating your custom creature--seems like you'll be busy this winter. II'm interested in your work with MaPZone. I experimented with it for a while, but decided to work with AoI's (Art of Illusion's) procedural texture & material editor. It's pretty slick. I hope, once I finish my present project, to spend more time with it. If you have a problem with Blender or NifScope, I may be able to help. Again, welcome aboard.