A little help with a model?

[demoncleaner]

I downloaded blender the other night in an attempt to learn some modeling in time for skyrim. I made this sword-picture

I had some problems with texture stretching and some other issues,but everything seems alright. I say seems because i have no way to check. I don't have oblivion installed on this computer. I was wondering if some kind soul could put my sword in game and see if it works. The texture isn't the greatest, and I could probably(in the future) do a better model,but I want to see if i'm doing it right.

here's the download it's small, so that won't be bad,but you'll need to set up the folders and set the textures to the mesh and all that. I don't remember how,it's been forever since i did a mod. I'd be really grateful to whoever could help. If it works take a pic so I can see it,if not tell me what happened.....thank you so much!!!!!

[InsanitySorrow]

For a first sword you did a good job , Only problem I had was with the collision, if you dropped it or moved it in-game the sword would start flipping around and doing what it's not supposed too. So I'd take an other look at that.

[demoncleaner]

First of all ... thank you for taking a look for me. I appreciate it.

I can see from the pic the normal map is too drastic. Which is something that being able to test it myself would fix...blah. As far as collision goes, I'm not 100% sure what's wrong. I used an elven short sword, which might have screwed it up,because that sword is curved. I noticed the collision capsule was crooked, but I didn't think it would be an issue. The elven sword poked out of the box some,so.

Do you have an idea what could be wrong?....Ive literally been modeling for 2 days, trouble shooting is not going to be my strong suit. I'll name a couple things that sparked my attention....

- curved collision box

- in blender, in object mode, it doesn't show up at all. it shows up only in edit mode

- I didn't adjust any setting in nifscope besides naming material property to envmap 2...which I think I did wrong anyway

You've already been a big help, so thanks again. If you think you know what might be wrong....let me know.

[InsanitySorrow]

Just the blade part of the normal map you need to reduce, the rest is fine.

I'd scrap the current collision, import a Longsowrd, say a Steel Longsword. Delete the sword and keep the collision, I'd say you won't need to adjust it at all.

For the material, you can just leave it named Material, that'll work perfectly fine for this.

[_echo]

A quick but crude way to get collision is to copy the model block branch in nifskope and paste it into the root block on an existing sword, then delete the old sword block branch.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19303

Here are the videos I made several years ago. There is one going over collision and exporting.

[InsanitySorrow]

Might be a good idea to upload those here too.

[ResolveThatChord]

Hey, great to see you're getting into blender, and I must say that's a pretty impressive first model!

I think you may find it useful to know that blender can display normal maps, diffuse maps and lighting in the 3d viewport in real time. In the display panel, there should be an option called "shading", which by default is set to "multitexture". Set it to "GLSL". Put some lights in your scene (if you don't everything will appear black) and set the viewport shading (default "solid") to "textured".

If you do that you can see normal maps, colour maps and lighting as you work on your model. Very useful for high detail models.

applying the normal map to your model is something else you do, and is covered by this excellent little tutorial by the amazing Johnathon Williamson:

http://cgcookie.com/blender/2010/06/30/normal_maps_blender_2_5/

Good luck making your designs and ideas come alive. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

And blender can be a little frustrating to learn at times, so if you ever have a problem, send me a PM!

[demoncleaner]

A quick but crude way to get collision is to copy the model block branch in nifskope and paste it into the root block on an existing sword, then delete the old sword block branch.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19303

Here are the videos I made several years ago. There is one going over collision and exporting.

It's frustrating because I used to know how to do all that. I changed models in nifscope for a lot of armors I retexed. Of course I didn't make the armors from scratch,but still....anyway thanks echo I'll check that out.

Hey, great to see you're getting into blender, and I must say that's a pretty impressive first model!

I think you may find it useful to know that blender can display normal maps, diffuse maps and lighting in the 3d viewport in real time. In the display panel, there should be an option called "shading", which by default is set to "multitexture". Set it to "GLSL". Put some lights in your scene (if you don't everything will appear black) and set the viewport shading (default "solid") to "textured".

If you do that you can see normal maps, colour maps and lighting as you work on your model. Very useful for high detail models.

applying the normal map to your model is something else you do, and is covered by this excellent little tutorial by the amazing Johnathon Williamson:

http://cgcookie.com/blender/2010/06/30/normal_maps_blender_2_5/

Good luck making your designs and ideas come alive. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

And blender can be a little frustrating to learn at times, so if you ever have a problem, send me a PM!

Thanks a lot, i'll try that out.

I think i'm going to break down and attempt to install oblivion on this pc. My video card is integrated ,but it's still an ati 4200. I should be able to check stuff out in game at the very least.

[Tamira]

Very nice sword!

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Kjm74Qe3RehaecO25EhPXycwT2Mrji2-vJDHwRsJKvY?feat=directlink

May I keep it?

[demoncleaner]

Very nice sword!

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Kjm74Qe3RehaecO25EhPXycwT2Mrji2-vJDHwRsJKvY?feat=directlink

May I keep it?

Sure can!!!! I just made another one an as soon a I texture it you can try it out for me!!!! Here's a pic of the model----

[InsanitySorrow]

Your material looks a little bright there.

Also for your blade looks a little flat, you need to add some sharp edges to it. You can create a basic blade quite easily:

1. Start off with a cube
   
2. Rtoate it 45 degrees on the Z axis
   
3. Rotate it 90 degrees on the X axis to lay it flat
   
4. Scale it on the Z axis to make it flat, though not too flat
   
5. Grab the verts at one end, extrude and scale in, repeat to round off the tip a little, on the final extrusion merge the end verts.
   

Edit: You also mentioned texture problems, after looking I noticed you have some stretching there caused by the UV mapping. An easy way to UV map cylinders is to use seams, you'll need a max of 3 seams for a basic shape grip:

Orange lines are the seams, what you see on the right is the results with the UV calculations set to Conformal.

[demoncleaner]

Are you talking about the old one or the new one(too bright,blade flat)?

Anyway, I made the blade in the new sword thinner at the edges and somewhat of a reverse blood groove in the middle. I know how to do the things you mentioned pretty much....so far i have been trying to focus on basic shapes. I havn't gotten into more complicated materials.

I'll have to try to work with the seams. I really couldn't get it to work right before,but it looks better the way you did it,so back to the drawing board!!!

Edit: How do you set the calculations to conformal?

Edited October 6, 2011 by demoncleaner

[ResolveThatChord]

I don't think you'll need to worry about messing with the UV unwrapping calculations. It'll turn out fine so long as you place your seams well.

Also, I notice IS is using blender 2.4. That's fine for him since he's been using for a while and is comfortable with it, but since you can already handle .nif import/export, I reccommend you learn modelling and everything else blender has to offer using blender 2.5. Support for 2.4 is going to dry up over time, and there's already a lot more easily accessible tutorials and advice for 2.5. The only drawback is a couple of scripts haven't been written for it yet, such as nif import/export. I personally keep 2.4 for those few functions, and have most of my workflow in 2.5.

Anyway, once you've marked seams and unwrapped it, IF you're using 2.5, in the UV/image editor hit ctrl+A (average island scale), and that'll even out your model's pixel density and minimise stretching. Then ctrl+p will arrange all the pieces neatly to fill up the entire square. For most objects this'll be all you need, the major exception being complex organic objects like animals or humans.

[InsanitySorrow]

The only drawback is a couple of scripts haven't been written for it yet, such as nif import/export.

That's why I am using 2.49, otherwise I'd be using 2.5 , Also since 2.49 is the one to export with, best to show modeling in it.

[demoncleaner]

I don't think you'll need to worry about messing with the UV unwrapping calculations. It'll turn out fine so long as you place your seams well.

Also, I notice IS is using blender 2.4. That's fine for him since he's been using for a while and is comfortable with it, but since you can already handle .nif import/export, I reccommend you learn modelling and everything else blender has to offer using blender 2.5. Support for 2.4 is going to dry up over time, and there's already a lot more easily accessible tutorials and advice for 2.5. The only drawback is a couple of scripts haven't been written for it yet, such as nif import/export. I personally keep 2.4 for those few functions, and have most of my workflow in 2.5.

Anyway, once you've marked seams and unwrapped it, IF you're using 2.5, in the UV/image editor hit ctrl+A (average island scale), and that'll even out your model's pixel density and minimise stretching. Then ctrl+p will arrange all the pieces neatly to fill up the entire square. For most objects this'll be all you need, the major exception being complex organic objects like animals or humans.

I started learning the other day on 2.5. I liked it better,since like you said ..a lot of tutorials etc,but again like you said it doesn't support necessary scripts. So i switched to the older version.

Here's the sword I made this morning.

The pommel is weird...I'll have to do something about that. I don't know why it looks like an eyeball...whatever!!!

[ResolveThatChord]

Looks to me like an unwrapping probelm. I may be wrong, but it looks like you've used a UV sphere for the pommel, and the pupil of your weird eye is around the pole of the sphere. That implies to me that the pupil is a separated island on the UV map, and is therefore showing a different texture.

Spheres are always tricky. I think it may acutally be impossible to unwrap one with no distortion at all, but you can get close enough.

I would recommend rotating the pommel 90 degrees so that the poles of the sphere line up with the direction of the sword. Also I'd make the handle and sphere one piece if you can. Next I'd put a seam around the equator of the pommel, and where the pommel meets the handle. Then unwrap.

Send me the file in a PM if you'd like me to show you what I mean.

Edited October 6, 2011 by ResolveThatChord

[InsanitySorrow]

If you place a seam along the sphere, say horizontally, then you will split it into two halves which will be free of stretching and problems. You can then stack the two UV islands to make them use the same part of the texture.

depending on the texture you might end up with a visible seam, but thats a lot better than a stretched texture and easier to hide. There are other ways of UV mapping it, but this is the easiest.

[demoncleaner]

The "caps" of the sphere were in a different place than the rest. I used the wrong texture on them. Yeah it seems like uving is going to be the hardest part.....strangely enough. I knew I was going to run into some kind of wall!!!!

Anyway here's a better pic.

[ResolveThatChord]

If you place a seam along the sphere, say horizontally, then you will split it into two halves which will be free of stretching and problems. You can then stack the two UV islands to make them use the same part of the texture.

Yep, you're certainly better at explaining this than me.

Demoncleaver: Keep at it. Experiment. You're doing great. When I get stuck on something like this, I like to pop open the BSAs and have a look at how Bethesda did it. All you really have to do is retexture that part, but as IS says, the easiest way to unwrap spheres is to cut them right in half with a seam, then move the UV islands so that they overlap. This makes a nice circle that's easy to texture and only has one seam.

[demoncleaner]

Okay I have some uv questions.....

-do you make seams while you're modeling? or do you have to wait till the end?

-once the model is done and the seams are made , do they automatically setup by themselves? or do I have to do something to have blender recognize the them?

-will this solve my stretching/model pieces in weird places issue?

[InsanitySorrow]

Yep, you're certainly better at explaining this than me.

I didn't see your edit while I was typing up my reply

Okay I have some uv questions.....

-do you make seams while you're modeling? or do you have to wait till the end?

-once the model is done and the seams are made , do they automatically setup by themselves? or do I have to do something to have blender recognize the them?

-will this solve my stretching/model pieces in weird places issue?

1. You're best leaving them until the end
   
2. No you have to do that yourself, select the edges/verts you want to make up your seam, press CTRL+E and select make seam
   
3. For the most part yes, but it all depends on how well you use the seams.
   

[demoncleaner]

I didn't see your edit while I was typing up my reply

1. You're best leaving them until the end
   
2. No you have to do that yourself, select the edges/verts you want to make up your seam, press CTRL+E and select make seam
   
3. For the most part yes, but it all depends on how well you use the seams.
   

I think you might have misunderstood a little.....

- do I have to leave the seams for the end? it would be easier, for me at least, to do them as I finish a piece and put it in place.

- I meant, will blender recognize that I made seams automatically....or do I have select some special "make uv with seams" option or some such thing.

- is there another way to cut down on stretching?or is it all dependent on how I set up the uv.

thanks for helping!!!

[InsanitySorrow]

I think you might have misunderstood a little.....

- do I have to leave the seams for the end? it would be easier, for me at least, to do them as I finish a piece and put it in place.

- I meant, will blender recognize that I made seams automatically....or do I have select some special "make uv with seams" option or some such thing.

- is there another way to cut down on stretching?or is it all dependent on how I set up the uv.

thanks for helping!!!

Nope I didn't, I responded right to what you said before.

• You can leave seams until the very end or you can UV map each section as you make it, it's entirely up to you.
  
• Yes it'll recognize them, follow what I meantioned above to create them, each seam you make is shown as an ornage line on your model.
  
• It's all based on your UV mapping, get it wrong and things start to look ugly. It's one of the harder parts of modeling but one well worth putting in the time to practice with and get right.
  

[demoncleaner]

Hey IS, I used your advice on the uv and the blade. Everything seemed to work out fine. I'll have to mess with it more to get where I want , but in the mean time I made a simple sword/texture to try it out.

---

It's hard to notice cause I just used two textures,but a lot less stretching.

[InsanitySorrow]

Looking good