Problem with activating Landscape Waterfalls

[KWITS]

Good Day,

I am not sure what happened but at some point, all of my waterfalls that I enabled under my TESIV mod while developing under the Construction Set, suddenly became disabled. In other words, I can hear the waterfalls but I can't see them any longer. Aren't landscape waterfalls self-activating? I am currently using Oblivion with Shivering Isles installed along with OBSE v19.

Regards,

Keith

[DsoS]

As far as the disappearing waterfall, I'm not 100% sure.

But your OBSE is outdated, you can download the latest here V.0020.

Sorry but, I'm picky about outdated items whether its software, device drivers or mods

I do wish you the best of luck on the missing waterfalls.

[KWITS]

As far as the disappearing waterfall, I'm not 100% sure.

But your OBSE is outdated, you can download the latest here V.0020.

Sorry but, I'm picky about outdated items whether its software, device drivers or mods

I do wish you the best of luck on the missing waterfalls.

[KWITS]

Good Day,

Thank you sincerely for your prompt post on this topic. I was mistaken about the version of OBSE. I just checked and I am indeed on v20. I do know that waterfalls fall under the subject Particles. I will check around the rest of the Oblivion world and see if other waterfalls are affected. My laptop is running Windows 7 SP1. It is a Dell Vostro 1710.

Regards,

Keith

[KWITS]

Good Day,

Do you know anything about using GECK instead of the TESIV Construction Set in support of Mod development? I discovered that Bethseda released Fallout Los Vegas through Steam. GECK is used to develop Mods for this game. Therefore, shouldn't GECK be used in support of TESIV? I tried to launch GECK but I receive an error against an unregistered DLL. I suspect that there is a dependency between GECK and Fallout. Where I am going with this conversation is, I am curious if I can resolve some of my Mod issues like activating waterfalls through using GECK. Your insights are most welcome.

Best Regards,

Keith

[KWITS]

Good Day,

Well, I have GECK working but only after I purchased and installed Fallout 3 through my Steam account. Do you know if GECK is compatible with Oblivion data files? I can't get my esp or esm files to load under the tool's IDE.

Thanks,

Keith

[KWITS]

Good Day,

Back to the discussion thread's topic, Landscape Waterfalls, I am still having problems with the visuals. In fact, none of the water particle effects are working under my Mod. However, other special effects are working fine.

Regards,

KWITS

[syscrusher]

Can you specify which objects you placed to make waterfalls? The ones I use don't have intrinsic sound effects; rather, you place a sound effect object near the waterfall to produce the ambient loop sound. You may be doing something different from what I am doing.

[KWITS]

Can you specify which objects you placed to make waterfalls? The ones I use don't have intrinsic sound effects; rather, you place a sound effect object near the waterfall to produce the ambient loop sound. You may be doing something different from what I am doing.

I just tried once again this evening to utilize a Landscape Waterfall from an exterior cell and pasted it into an interior cell that is part of my Mod. I encountered the same results as before. I can see the waterfall under the CS tool but during play mode, it is invisible. Do you know of another type of waterfall that is recommended for interior cells like in caves or dungeons?

Regards,

KWITS

[Tamira]

This is a well known issue for waterfalls in interiors. This tip from a friend is what helped me:

Open the Nif in Nifskope and in all NiTriStrips of the mesh under NiMaterialProperty set the value of the Emissive Color from 0 (zero) to 1. Save under a new name in your data folder and replace the vanilla mesh with the new one.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/u0MnffBB25f5NUJOKod3rdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

You can test with a value of under 1 such as 0,5. Lower values = less luminescence

[syscrusher]

Interesting. I just checked my mod, and I'm using Landscape\Waterfall01.NIF and Landscape\WaterHoriz01.NIF in an interior cell with no problems. The two NIFs are unmodified, although for one of them I created a custom object using the NIF because I needed to change non-visual behavior.

@Tamira: Could you please elaborate and/or post a link about the known issue? The waterfalls are working fine for me, but after reading your post I am concerned that perhaps they won't work right for other people when I release the beta.

I wonder if the issue is at all related to the cell-level settings of the particular cell. Mine is noteworthy in that it is a building interior, and there is no cell-level water present, just the waterfall and one of Washington's water-static objects.

Good thread, folks...interesting topic.

[Tamira]

Maybe this issue is more or less dependent on the personal settings of the game.

Here are two screenshots of an interior with a waterfall of Antiscamp's mod "Dibella's Watch".

Antiscamp said that he had no problems seeing it in his game, for me it was almost invisible:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/y0U431fLxGNf51VPvy5wyicwT2Mrji2-vJDHwRsJKvY?feat=directlink

And here when I replaced the waterfall01.nif:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jt8jiijpbzXnM_aRis-XxScwT2Mrji2-vJDHwRsJKvY?feat=directlink

[WillieSea]

Waterfalls, in an interior, can be seen if your cell ambient light is set high enough. If you have a dark interior, then the vanilla waterfalls are almost invisible.

[KWITS]

Good Day,

Thank you sincerely to everyone that has posted to this most frustrating topic. I have learned in my short time of TESIV modelling that contrast and detail are the two most important concepts in building a gaming environment. Using a beautiful waterfall sequence is no exception. I have Nifscope installed but I am having difficulties in locating the NIF file for LandscapeWaterfall01. Where is the file located under the Oblivion\Data directory?

Regards,

KWITS

[syscrusher]

Good Day,

Thank you sincerely to everyone that has posted to this most frustrating topic. I have learned in my short time of TESIV modelling that contrast and detail are the two most important concepts in building a gaming environment. Using a beautiful waterfall sequence is no exception. I have Nifscope installed but I am having difficulties in locating the NIF file for LandscapeWaterfall01. Where is the file located under the Oblivion\Data directory?

Regards,

KWITS

By default, it *isn't*. It will be in the Oblivion Meshes BSA (archive) file, which is also in your data directory. You need a program like BSA Commander to extract the BSA file into a working directory on your hard drive. I do NOT recommend extracting the BSA directly into your game "Data" folder. Extract the meshes and the textures to the same (non-game) directory -- I have one called OblvionExportData. Then set up your tool options to treat that directory as an alternate root location for texture search.

[syscrusher]

Waterfalls, in an interior, can be seen if your cell ambient light is set high enough. If you have a dark interior, then the vanilla waterfalls are almost invisible.

Thanks, Tamira and WillieSea. Your comments explain my situation. The cell where I used the waterfall meshes is interior, but well lit by lanterns. Just to be safe, though, I'll probably clone and edit the NIFs and use my custom versions in my mod. I won't overwrite the originals but rather will copy them to my own folder to edit.

Edited March 13, 2012 by syscrusher

[KWITS]

Waterfalls, in an interior, can be seen if your cell ambient light is set high enough. If you have a dark interior, then the vanilla waterfalls are almost invisible.

You are absolutely correct friend! Once I adjusted the ambient light within my interior cell, the once invisible waterfall is now seen. However, I consider this process as a workaround. At least now I know I am sane! I want to modify the LandscapeWaterfall01.nif to change its parameter to a higher value than zero. This way, I can continue to make use of ambient lighting from torches and candles within a more realistic environment. Light always has a natural or artificial source.

[KWITS]

Thanks, Tamira and WillieSea. Your comments explain my situation. The cell where I used the waterfall meshes is interior, but well lit by lanterns. Just to be safe, though, I'll probably clone and edit the NIFs and use my custom versions in my mod. I won't overwrite the originals but rather will copy them to my own folder to edit.

But where oh where is the darn, LandscapeWaterfall01.nif file?

[KWITS]

By default, it *isn't*. It will be in the Oblivion Meshes BSA (archive) file, which is also in your data directory. You need a program like BSA Commander to extract the BSA file into a working directory on your hard drive. I do NOT recommend extracting the BSA directly into your game "Data" folder. Extract the meshes and the textures to the same (non-game) directory -- I have one called OblvionExportData. Then set up your tool options to treat that directory as an alternate root location for texture search.

Thanks so much for your post! I have BSA commander so what is the process? Do you first export all of the files to a custom directory, modify the files desired, and then do you wrap everything back up under the original BSA file?

[KWITS]

Good Day,

I just modified two landscapewaterfall type files that were extracted from the BSA meshes file. Under NifScope, I went under Render\Settings and adjusted around the Emissions wheel under the Materials tab counterclockwise about 45 degrees. Lastly, I saved the modified files under separate file names. I modified the original waterfall file and the foam file. I guess the next step is to add the two modified files back to the original BSA file.

Regards,

KWITS

[KWITS]

Good Day,

I just modified two landscapewaterfall type files that were extracted from the BSA meshes file. Under NifScope, I went under Render\Settings and adjusted around the Emissions wheel under the Materials tab counterclockwise about 45 degrees. Lastly, I saved the modified files under separate file names. I modified the original waterfall file and the foam file. I guess the next step is to add the two modified files back to the original BSA file.

Regards,

KWITS

Okay, I am almost there but not quite. I quickly learned that I can't repack customized NIF files into the original BSA Meshes file. However, I did learn that I could simply move my customized files into a directory path that the CS tool would recognize. Here is my problem. I am receiving a persistent error message when I try to save my NIF file. The error indicates a link block error.

[KWITS]

Good Day,

My issue with activating, landscape waterfalls within interior cells is now resolved. In addition to everyone's invaluable help, I am one step closure to modifying existing NIF files through NifScope in support of my pre-release Mod, "Word and Void".

Regards,

KWITS

[syscrusher]

Thanks so much for your post! I have BSA commander so what is the process? Do you first export all of the files to a custom directory, modify the files desired, and then do you wrap everything back up under the original BSA file?

Oh, no! Don't ever modify the original BSA file!

What I recommend is to make your own directory under the Data\Meshes folder, such as Data\Meshes\kwits. Then put a COPY of the NIFs into that directory -- do not modify the original NIF in its original location (if you already did it, that's okay -- the BSA still has the master version -- just *move* your modified version to your own mesh directory, rather than copying it).

Once your own copy, in your own directory, is modified, make a *new* static object that you then use in your mod:

• 
  
  
• In the objects window of the Construction Set, find the original landscape waterfall you want to clone. Double-click on it in the object browser, but DO NOT change anything yet.
  
• Erase the EditorID of the object from its popup window. Then click the button to assign a NIF file, disregarding the one that's there now.
  
• Navigate to your custom NIF and select it. The CS will create an unique EditorID for you based on the directory path of the new NIF file, which is one of the reasons why you should put your personal NIFs in your personal folder.
  
• When you submit the object edit dialog box, the CS will ask "Create a new form?" Answer YES to that, because that is exactly what you want to do. CAUTION: If you say no, you will modify the master object in the game, which you should not try unless you really know what you're doing.
  

Repeat the above for any of the other landscape waterfalls you want to change.

Now, you have new static waterfall objects that use your modified NIFs. All you have to do is use the CS in the usual way to paste them into the render window in your mod.

Hope this helps!

[syscrusher]

I experimented with the emissivity settings last night and found that for my mod's lighting conditions, a value of 1.000 was too high and made the water look radioactive. I settled on 0.750, which might still be too much in dim lighting, but works well in my fairly well-lit area. I am not in any way intending that as a suggestion for others, just documenting my own experience. As they say, your mileage may vary.

I should also note that some of the objects in that series have multiple NIF strip nodes in the file, and you need to change the emissivity for each of those, not just for the water node.

Syscrusher

[syscrusher]

Okay, I am almost there but not quite. I quickly learned that I can't repack customized NIF files into the original BSA Meshes file. However, I did learn that I could simply move my customized files into a directory path that the CS tool would recognize. Here is my problem. I am receiving a persistent error message when I try to save my NIF file. The error indicates a link block error.

Ignore it. I got that error also, but it doesn't seem to have any effect.

I should also mention that if you decide to twiddle the emissivity settings of your NIF later, you do not need to do anything in the CS to make the change effective. The game loads the NIFs dynamically each time it is started. The ESP file you create in the CS just has a pointer to the NIF in its external file; it doesn't get embedded.