UVW Mapping

[Vouivre]

Okay So to start I have this sword here and am trying to expand my skills into creating a uvw image map to which I'll bring into a manipulation program and paint the textures in. I'm currently trying to learn and figure out how to do this, as apparently the old versions of max you kind of had to stitch edges together for things. Now with newer versions it's all angles and such.(though I'm sure stitching maybe needed from time to time as well)

So far I'm finding out that at least on the sword

Boxed items can only go a max of 90 before Max will crash

Spheres can go 180 and you seem to get the whole chunk.

The other items that I used such as a cylinder, splines and such.. I have no idea.

So with my "initial" attempt of the unwrap by everything being at 45 degrees I have this which clearly is not desireable, unless of course you want pure control for every polygon which realistically? You do not want this. My question is this. What should I do, to make it simpler? The next step obviously is to make the texture itself, whether from scratch or taking and cropping images/textures into the areas desired

[Artisanix]

Boxed items can only go a max of 90 before Max will crash

If you experience crashes during UVW mapping, check what renderer you use, if it's DX10 change it immediatelly to DX9, as it is buggy as hell, at least in 2010 version.

As for tutorial about UVW maps I posted the link to one here in this thread.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Artisanix

[Vouivre]

I'm using the 2012 version, and I think I'm okay with finding out why it's crashing. I just would rather see the scaling tool work a little better. It's not that bad now that I'm getting used to moving stuff around.

Here's my current result perhaps not ideal but it's still pretty good imo for my first attempt

UVW map

Edited April 13, 2012 by Vouivre

[Meo]

Heres my 2 cents, since your sword will most likely look the same on each side, you should UV only half the sword. Less unique details but better optimization. You can also use different techniques for different parts. Also pelt mapping, its not just for organic shapes, when stuck it can do wonders.

[Vouivre]

I heard about the pelt mapping. Though How do you uv half the sword? just literally select half open render then paste and mirror? I'm also trying to figure out how to get stuff set up in the material editor so I just load the texture and it stays and not having to re-open the uvmap editor.

[Meo]

Like a coin, unless your sword has two different sides, theres no need to map both.

Once youre done modeling, split it in half literally, select the bottom polygons and use the detach function. You can delete that half or keep it as a backup, in case you screw it up, just move it aside. Again i suggest you split your mesh to facilitate with uv mapping: the blade, hilt, etc. You can reattach everything once your done.

Open the Material Editor. Select a slot, click on the square next to Diffuse, this will open the Material/Map Browser. Select Bitmap, browse to your texture. The Material Editor will change, dont freak out, its your diffuse map property window. Under the slots and above the Bitmap button, theres a button named , click it. Youre back to the default Material Editor. You can select and drag a texture slot directly onto a mesh or use the button Assign Material to Selection. You cant see the material on your model, thats normal, you need to click Show Standard Map in Viewport icon in the Material Editor, left of the Go To Parent button.

I know its super complicated, but you get used to it.

[Vouivre]

Yeah it's not something I'm used too. I'm just trying to get used to it. I figure once I do, I'll be in good shape. I mean really this time 4 years ago I knew nothing about modding modeling texturing or even there were jobs near me to do this. And now here I am learning some of the more complicated stuff.

So following your instructions I got half the mesh, bottom gone, so the top is all that's left. So how do I do the rest? Do I map out the one half clone the top and mirror to bottom and then go on from there?

The other issue I have is making the uv map stick so when I throw the material on, it automatically goes on the mesh.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Vouivre

[Meo]

Also if you want to see your texture in the UVM Edit window, you can select it in the dropbox on the upper right, But only if you applied it to your mesh already. Its probably too dark, you can adjust that in option at the bottom, brightness is set to 0.5, change it to 1.0. I still havent found how to have it automatically to 1.0.

[Vouivre]

Yeah that part, but I was trying to get it so, when I'm ready to export it into say Oblivion for example as a nif the uvw map is set on the map and I can just do the texture as needed.

[Artisanix]

Here's my current result perhaps not ideal but it's still pretty good imo for my first attempt UVW map

That's waaaay too many still. Look at original weapons in NifSkope, most of them usually have around 10 pieces only on UV map.

Having so many scattered pieces influences two things:

a) it won't be possible to put many distinctive details on object's surface because of small amounts of space everywhere

b) texturing it properly will be hell of a pain, as it will be almost impossible* to make seamless connections between those disconnected pieces (* at least not worth any of your preciouss time at all).

Edited April 14, 2012 by Artisanix

[Vouivre]

So is it possible that it's how I made the mesh to begin with?

[Artisanix]

most of the time - no

simplicity of UV map has less in common with complexity of the mesh itself than with actual work of 3D artist

in other words, no matter how complex mesh you created, the responsibility for creation of relatively simple UV map is all yours :]

if you can't create simple UV map it mostly indicates that you have no required knowlege yet how to do so (means: not enough practice with these things)

Edited April 14, 2012 by Artisanix

[Vouivre]

Which I definitely do not have the practice in making the maps but I'm definitely getting it not. So right now I'm trying to get used to it, I understand the general idea, but I guess I'm trying to get used to how to get the best setup of the mesh for the map so I can texture it. I really want to get good with proper mapping before I start work on the texturing part of things.

[Artisanix]

Before you start creating UVW map you may want to review your final model - try Welder modifier (it merges vertices that are very close together), and Optimize modifier (may reduce number of vertices and faces without changing the geometry much)

[Vouivre]

Alright, I'll look into trying those and see if I can make it a little easier. Is there anything in terms of the mapping I can do, to get bigger chunks and make it look better/ have better results for texturing?

[Artisanix]

In case of the swords it usually goes like this - in Unwrap UVW modifier select the whole blade then flatten mapping, then select grip and flatten mapping, select hilt, flatten mapping, and so on. And try different face angle thresholds, etc. and of course use checker pattern as it is very helpul here. Sometimes you may want to even check those other buttons like planar, box, cylinder, etc. and manipulate their gizmos and other settings there...

Edited April 14, 2012 by Artisanix

[Vouivre]

That's kind of what I was figuring. I'll see what I can get done from there on I mean the texture idea for this one is pretty simple, the next sword I plan on doing the blade isn't a straight blade, It's made more like a flame. I plan on doing a series of models, and slowly move into armor and more complicated stuff. Figure I start easier.

After learning a couple things(dunno if max isn't playing nice or what..)

1. Material editor only works if you're not uvw mapping(ok I'm coo with that)

2 uvw mapping you just need to throw your uvw map up in through the asset browser once it's textured and you're good to go.

Results:

Sword

total of.. 10 mins in painter/gimp to make metal and wood texture from scratch. Not too shabby just need to focus on mastering UV map layout.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Vouivre

[Marthgun]

hey, someone over at bethesda forums gave me this link and it goes through unwrapping all basic shapes and ways to do it, even pelt mapping.

maybe you know all this, but for me this was the best resource i had ever seen for this

http://cg.tutsplus.c...p-uvw-modifier/

Edit: and there is an intermediate tutorial from the same guy on the same site too, you just need to click his name or search for it.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Marthgun

[hoodoo_man]

Mostly as an aside, there are several programs that greatly simplify the process of re-uv mapping an item or items and produces a helpful template you can use in Pshop or whatever your poison is. I like uvmapper myself, but the free, legacy version I've used forever only take OBJ file input or export--which is problematic with the newer nifskope versions. I'm still using 1.1.0 for that reason.

 

If you extract an object--or in this case "save as" your model--to OBJ format this will NOT preserve weighting. This used to be a good thing--as you could pull a geometry out, modify and/or re-map/texture it, and as long as you didn't change the number of vertices or their order, you could then replace the mesh in the nif file and it would pick up the original weighting. I'm not sure if you can export as nif from Max and then accomplish roughly the same thing. You used to be able to. Just replace the geometry node in the nif file--not the weighting/rigging attached to it and you might be able to copy/paste between nif files.

 

They also offer the new, spiffy uvmapper with real-time 3d previews and other things real men don't need (Why is my character half-naked in the snow--that's right, real men--and dragonborn--don't need clothes to stay warm! )   on a free 30 day trial basis. I'm sure if one were persistant enough one could find a way to extend that. There are other mapping programs as well, that's just the one I'm familiar with and have used for years. Good luck with your texturing!

 

Hoodoo Man

[hoodoo_man]

It's really not that many pieces. You should see some of my uvmaps on my basket-hilts--and those were for Oblivion . The problem I think you're trying to point out is that A) it could be done a lot more simply--which comes from experience. B) a lot of those pieces look like they should be connected--which is a problem unless you're flood filling the area with texture. It is best to keep individual parts of the mesh as single maps, if you don't want to deal with seams, and who does?

 

Incidentaly, it is also possible to split the texture at the uv-mapping stage. Or most uv-mapping software will let you do it. In uvmapper you make a planar map of the object and select the "1 side only" option--then both sides of the mesh (however you split it when you generated your map--x, y, z YMMV , will map to the same UV coordinates in the image. You can also just superimpose the meshes on the uv map, but if it's not symmetrical, one side may be backwards . There are many "less complicated" options, depending on your level of comfortability with certain tools as opposed to others.

 

There are as many ways to skin a mesh--not a perfect metaphor--as there are a cat--sometimes with equally unpleasant results. I thought it wasn't bad at all for a first try with uvmapping. At least people are trying. Some of the work-arounds I've seen on Nexus lately are just disappointing. /Begin Rant/ Like the other day I saw something that used General Tullius's belt--so I was like, cool, I wonder how they got the belt off? It turned out they left the whole mesh in there and made everything but the belt transparent. There were several other people in there as well. Somehow it works in-game, but it's sloppy as h*ll as a mod. Also, where did all the swords with two-dimensional hilts start coming from? I'm exaggerating--but there are a lot of people with fairly thin horizontal profiles on their hilts--and based on the number of flat sword hilts I've seen on Nexus, and the number I've seen in real life. . . and I am clearly missing something somewhere. . . . /End Rant/

 

Hoodoo Man

That's waaaay too many still. Look at original weapons in NifSkope, most of them usually have around 10 pieces only on UV map.

Having so many scattered pieces influences two things:
a) it won't be possible to put many distinctive details on object's surface because of small amounts of space everywhere
b) texturing it properly will be hell of a pain, as it will be almost impossible* to make seamless connections between those disconnected pieces (* at least not worth any of your preciouss time at all).

[InsanitySorrow]

This discussion ended last December, no need to resurrect it