Getting started with textures

[ViperMkII]

Hello,

So I'm trying to get to the point that I can re-texture armor completely from scratch. Following some advice that I got from Cabal120, I got photoshop and Ndo2. He said that he uses bethesda's textures to make normal maps in Ndo2 then he makes a cavity map for the coloring. I can't figure out what a cavity map is but below is a diffuse map that I made from my normal map. Does it look like something that can be colored or am I doing this wrong? I also assume that a diffuse map is a type of cavity map?

 

[DarkRider]

Try this: http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/4677-guest-workshop-starx-texturing-workshop-part-1/

 

There's two parts to that series, part 2 is here: http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/4767-guest-workshop-starx-texturing-workshop-part-2/

 

The Graphic Artistry course in general is pretty terrific: http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/forum/118-graphic-artistry/

 

Good luck

[ViperMkII]

Hey thanks for the reply, I'll be sure to go through that first link. I scanned through the GA course a few minutes ago and unfortunantly it was all stuff that I aready know. Hell, I wish I knew about it before because all of that is at the core of the mods I have already published. I think I have had enough of layering and pasting over Bethesda's stuff and I need to take the step of doing it completely from scratch like CaBal120 does. The problem is that I don't know how to get a working outline going.

 

BTW, am I seriously limiting myself if I stick with GIMP 2.8 for my coloring, shading etc. or should I take the days a weeks to relearn how to do everything in PS?

[DaMage]

When texturing from scratch you do really need to understand how a 2d Texture is applied to the 3d Model.

 

There are two approachs to this, creating a UV map and using it as a guide to draw the texture onto the 2D image (produces the best results but is slower if you are new to texturing) or stretching a UV map to match your texture. The second approach only really works well when you have an object where the texture have been taken from real-life photos where you can get the angles you need. I suggest the first option if you really want to get texturing something complex.

 

You'll notice on Bethesda textures that everything is well laid out and seperated by gaps, this is because the 3D model artist has created the model and UV mapped it in a way that makes it fairly clear where on the texture the various part need to go. The bethsoft texture artist would be given the UV map as a 2D image and then they would build the texture within that. Your 'cavity map' is close enough to represent what parts of the texture map are applied to what, so you should be able to get a good fitting texture.

[InsanitySorrow]

My first suggestion would be to check out Millenia's tutorials, they're aimed at gun makers but the same setup can be used for anything:

 

Tutorial

 

Getting the same results as the modder you mentioned and others takes time and practice, you'll be at it for a while

[ResolveThatChord]

If you're aspiring to make "photorealistic" textures on par with Bethesda's work (or at least visually consistent with it) There are some really helpful tutorials on blending layers in Photoshop at CGTextures.

As for creating textures that are well designed so that they read well and are well composed, I'd check out Valve's Character Art Guide for DotA 2. Obviously the Elder Scrolls games have a very different visual aesthetic, but the same principles apply even to "photorealistic" work.

[ViperMkII]

Not to sound rude but not one of you have answered my question. I have seen mellinia's videos and I have no interest in baking textures from models and I have now interest in change Bethesda's UV mapping.

 

I want to take the existing texture and change it to the extent that CaBal120 does (I hate to keep dropping his name but he is the only one that I know who does re-textures to this extreme).

 

So what I want to know: is the texture above something that you texture gurus would use to  start a re-texture from scratch? Do you guys start with some kind of basic outline?

 

Here is the one and only message I received from CaBal concerning what he does:

 

"i start any retexture from normal map.... using bethesda as a base....removing all the artifacts due to compression and adding anykind of details
i use ndo2
http://quixel.se/
to make volumes and things.... and other tweaks in photoshop for very small details.
when i have a good normal map i make a cavity map...again with ndo2 and use it as a base for color.
but always... you have to start from normal map... not from colors"

I'm trying to understand what he is doing here. I get how to use Ndo2 to make a normal and add detail but I cannot figure out the second part about the cavity map. I  am starting to think that what he does is way above what everyone else knows.

Edited April 23, 2013 by ViperMkII

[InsanitySorrow]

It's not above what everyone else knows , It's harder to explain than you might think.

 

With my comment about Millenia's tutorial, it wasn't the baking part I was linking you to it for, he talks a bit about his prep work. This covers his base textures and how he uses the cavity map. By the sounds of it Cabal does things in a similar way, the only difference being he makes textures for existing models rather than new ones.

 

Best method to start with, download the official HD texture pack, extract the textures you want to work with/replace. This way you'll get the HD version of Bethesda's normal map, which are mostly baked from High Poly models, saves you some work.

 

• You start with a base colour in PS/GIMP, 50% grey fill usually works well.
• Create a Cavity map using NDo's normal to Cavity map option, or you could use XNormal, works just as well.
• The result will be a grey texture, pretty much a grey version of the normal map, this has all the details and bump data.
• Take that and overlay over your base colour in GIMP/PS

 

You can do the same steps above but instead making a Cavity Map you make an Ambient Occlusion map instead. Copy and paste that over your base (above the Cavity map) and set it to Multiply.

 

You now have a base to work from, from here you add a few base colours and start adding the materials you want, build up from there.

 

This isn't a simple process and you'll learn more from trial and error than you will from people trying to explain step by step.

[ViperMkII]

• You start with a base colour in PS/GIMP, 50% grey fill usually works well.
• Create a Cavity map using NDo's normal to Cavity map option, or you could use XNormal, works just as well.
• The result will be a grey texture, pretty much a grey version of the normal map, this has all the details and bump data.
• Take that and overlay over your base colour in GIMP/PS

 Thank you! It sounds like I have done these steps. When I do the normal to cavity conversion it produces the diffuse map from above. I just didn't know what the cavity map is supposed to look like but if this is it then I'll get started on texturing it. Btw, I have several re-textures on Nexus already so I know a thing or two, I just haven't taken it to this extreme before.

Edited April 23, 2013 by ViperMkII

[InsanitySorrow]

Yep it looks similar to what you have above.

[ViperMkII]

Oh and thanks for the tip about the AO, it looks 1k times more detailed.

Edited April 23, 2013 by ViperMkII

[ViperMkII]

Here is what I was able to do in a couple of hours of playing around. I converted the HD texture to a normal, converted that to an AO, triple layered the AO and then overlayed the original HD texture over the AO. The amount of detail is amazing!

 

Edited April 23, 2013 by ViperMkII