Nagasteim

[Glowplug]

Most of my time, as possible, in the last 2 years has been in set design.

Having worked out what I can/not do I am finalizing dialogue.

 

I am about to complete the first episode of Nagasteim.

A small army of...enemy have taken the wharf preventing an exodus of the locals.

Which scenario would you like?

1. The player uses powerful magic to sneak in and drug the enemy (no battle)
2. Same as 1 but the player gets caught and has to fight their way out (the drug enables exodus anyway).
3. Same as 1 but the player uses magic to escape the (drug enables exodus anyway).
4. The player has to reload a save till they drug the enemy which enables exodus.
5. If the player fails to drug the enemy they have to clear the wharf single handed (about 15 enemy)
6. If the player fails to drug the enemy war breaks out of about 9 battlemage + player to 20 enemy.
 

Note: the drug knocks enemy out for around 12 hours to allow the exodus.

 

If you like 6 then please add any changes in odds such as less defense and/or enchantments/spells provided to player by the mod.

 

The final question is how you think the choice should affect the following episodes.

 

Note2: I do not plan to release Nagasteim by episode but as an entire story.

[HeyYou]

Hhhmmm... why not have a couple different options? Drugs, Frontal attack, stealth attack, or some variety of magical attack? I realize that puts more work on you..... but, having different options to complete the mission lends a lot to replayablity.

[syscrusher]

You've set yourself quite a challenge. Our team just released a mod that has several scenes in it with large numbers of NPCs, and the Oblivion engine doesn't make that easy to do. It *is* possible, and I certainly encourage you to go for it -- but don't underestimate the challenge of getting it right. Those NPCs will do some amazingly stupid things when you start play testing, and you'll have to work around the issues that arise.

 

I would suggest tossing out #4 right away. If there is only one way to play through your mod, you've just killed a lot of the re-play value.

 

The battlemage ally concept is interesting. How about something like this:

 

* Player acquires the magic/potion for a stealth approach and is given the option of allies or solo mission.

* They can complete the mission either with stealth or combat, but the more allies they take along, the more likely enemies will detect them if they try stealth.

* Once they are detected, battle ensues, and the odds are determined by how many allies they took along.

 

You can make some enemy guards that are scripted to have a random chance of a direct StartCombat(Player) script function call, with the random percentage being directly proportional to how many allies the player chose to take along.

 

If you do something like this, then it gives the player a lot of ways to approach the scenario, and you force them to make some tough choices. Take a lot of allies, you have a great chance to win at combat but a lousy chance of avoiding it. Take few or no allies, you have a great chance to sneak your way out, but if you get caught, all hell breaks loose.

 

It sounds as if you've put a lot of work into your mod! I look forward to playing it, and please let me know if you need a beta tester, when the time comes.

 

EDIT: Instead of just 9 battle mages, you could also consider offering the player three different pools of allies, with only up to 3 of each. Archers, mages, and warriors...   Give them dialog of "I'll take 3 archers/2 archers/1 archer/no archers", repeated for each category. Then calculate your detection odds based not only on how many, but what kind. Warriors most likely detected, archers next (lighter, quieter armor), and mages least (no armor, and presumably some illusion  magic for concealment, though you might not actually want to do that for real because the player couldn't see them either). Now the player has to factor in the survivability of their allies by category, and weigh that off against the PC's own choices of armor and combat style.

Edited March 23, 2015 by syscrusher

[Glowplug]

Hhhmmm... why not have a couple different options? Drugs, Frontal attack, stealth attack, or some variety of magical attack? I realize that puts more work on you..... but, having different options to complete the mission lends a lot to replayablity.

Thank you, good point about replayability.

[Glowplug]

You've set yourself quite a challenge. Our team just released a mod that has several scenes in it with large numbers of NPCs, and the Oblivion engine doesn't make that easy to do. It *is* possible, and I certainly encourage you to go for it -- but don't underestimate the challenge of getting it right. Those NPCs will do some amazingly stupid things when you start play testing, and you'll have to work around the issues that arise.

 

I would suggest tossing out #4 right away. If there is only one way to play through your mod, you've just killed a lot of the re-play value.

 

The battlemage ally concept is interesting. How about something like this:

 

* Player acquires the magic/potion for a stealth approach and is given the option of allies or solo mission.

* They can complete the mission either with stealth or combat, but the more allies they take along, the more likely enemies will detect them if they try stealth.

* Once they are detected, battle ensues, and the odds are determined by how many allies they took along.

 

You can make some enemy guards that are scripted to have a random chance of a direct StartCombat(Player) script function call, with the random percentage being directly proportional to how many allies the player chose to take along.

 

If you do something like this, then it gives the player a lot of ways to approach the scenario, and you force them to make some tough choices. Take a lot of allies, you have a great chance to win at combat but a lousy chance of avoiding it. Take few or no allies, you have a great chance to sneak your way out, but if you get caught, all hell breaks loose.

 

It sounds as if you've put a lot of work into your mod! I look forward to playing it, and please let me know if you need a beta tester, when the time comes.

 

EDIT: Instead of just 9 battle mages, you could also consider offering the player three different pools of allies, with only up to 3 of each. Archers, mages, and warriors...   Give them dialog of "I'll take 3 archers/2 archers/1 archer/no archers", repeated for each category. Then calculate your detection odds based not only on how many, but what kind. Warriors most likely detected, archers next (lighter, quieter armor), and mages least (no armor, and presumably some illusion  magic for concealment, though you might not actually want to do that for real because the player couldn't see them either). Now the player has to factor in the survivability of their allies by category, and weigh that off against the PC's own choices of armor and combat style.

Thank for your time and wealth of information.

This ties in well with what HeyYou suggests bringing it all into scope for me.

I'll take a little time planning this so as it does not overwhelm me.

[opal]

Judging from mod pictures and vids, (Nagasteim related and Time Cairn), 

you know your way around modding for Oblivion. - Very nice looking mod by the way!   

 

I don't know the current scale of your mod, the esm was 50 megs+, some time ago? So from that I gather your mod is even bigger these days?

 

So, to be taken with a seriously large grain of salt  , here' my general advice:

 

- if this scene you seek advice on is a big part of your mod.... 

go bananas and do as much as you can with it. Make it a scene that the player will always remember and want to replay.

 

 

 

- Is this  scenario some sort of episode climax?...

Then go all the way.

Have the player sneak in to drug them, surprise the player with an ambush and let him/her experience an epic battle and throw in a few allies into the mix to make the battle easier on the player.

(Bear in mind though, if it's an interior cell, Oblivion can't handle 20 npcs + player at once.)

 

 

 

- However, if this is only a small part of your mod....

then take the easier route with it, and just make sure it plays well and make it a bit simple for now. Save yourself time. Save yourself work.

Then move on to the bigger parts of your mod and dedicate most of your time and effort on doing those well. 

 

         (It can be quite easy to let yourself be overwhelmed by complicating the little things

          before taking on the bigger more complex things.)  

 

- Later when those big pieces are in place.... 

and your whole mod is somewhat playable,

you can go back and improve and expand upon those smaller parts of your mod,

and then, you make them become everything they ever could and should be.  

 

 

Edited March 24, 2015 by opal

[Glowplug]

 

Judging from mod pictures and vids, (Nagasteim related and Time Cairn), 

you know your way around modding for Oblivion. - Very nice looking mod by the way!   

 

I don't know the current scale of your mod, the esm was 50 megs+, some time ago? So from that I gather your mod is even bigger these days?

 

So, to be taken with a seriously large grain of salt  , here' my general advice:

 

- if this scene you seek advice on is a big part of your mod.... 

go bananas and do as much as you can with it. Make it a scene that the player will always remember and want to replay.

 

 

 

- Is this  scenario some sort of episode climax?...

Then go all the way.

Have the player sneak in to drug them, surprise the player with an ambush and let him/her experience an epic battle and throw in a few allies into the mix to make the battle easier on the player.

(Bear in mind though, if it's an interior cell, Oblivion can't handle 20 npcs + player at once.)

 

 

 

- However, if this is only a small part of your mod....

then take the easier route with it, and just make sure it plays well and make it a bit simple for now. Save yourself time. Save yourself work.

Then move on to the bigger parts of your mod and dedicate most of your time and effort on doing those well. 

 

         (It can be quite easy to let yourself be overwhelmed by complicating the little things

          before taking on the bigger more complex things.)  

 

- Later when those big pieces are in place.... 

and your whole mod is somewhat playable,

you can go back and improve and expand upon those smaller parts of your mod,

and then, you make them become everything they ever could and should be.  

 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback.

With all of these posts I'm getting a clear picture of what to do.

I had forgotten about the NPC limitation which cuts out half of my first post.

When I say first episode it is a major stage where everyone leaves the starting region/island and there's no turning back.

The player has already performed a number of tasks so better not to drag this out.

I think I can make it significant and variable while keeping it simple.

The objective is to clear the wharf ready for the exodus.

After that it goes to a cut scene.

The player has another agenda where they'll find out about the success of the mission later.

 

Without wanting to let on too much, I will at least say I've broken it up into 2 smaller as well as the "drug enemy" missions.

While I'm not sure how I should rate the success of the final mission or what else it could affect it will probably present itself in due course.

[Glowplug]

An update.

I am no longer quite so concerned about the wharf play off.

At the start there is one Nedic boat docked at the wharf.
Hantu will say "More Nedic boats are ready to dock at the wharf." (rather than are docked).
At this stage two boats that are anchored off shore are enabled and the player can tcl onto them but nobody is there.

This solves the problem with not enabling any quest related Nede soldiers until the right time.

For the first stage the player has to gather 3 ingredients, one being the soul of a tainted guar.
While doing this I realised I could add some side quests.
At each location is a bonus for if the player can solve it.

Tainted Guar: soul trap (automatically occurs onDeath)
On search it has a map of a ship wreck. It's a bit of a search but the rewards are...
* A special glass claymore - I won't spoil this.
* Legendary Water Breathing (spell)- Only requires Apprentice but has high Cost. It automatically recasts if you are still underwater and have enough magicka.
* An easter egg.

Ayleid Citadel: Strong Redwart Flowers (only have to pick one)
Close by is a satchel that a Nedic soldier has dropped.
Inside is a note about how she has been trying to solve a puzzle in the Ayleid Citadel (that the Nedes have taken over, a second time...sigh).
The reward is a Spirit of Chameleon spell but I haven't thought out doing a minigame for the puzzle.
I should post on TES Alliance to see if anybody has some suggestions on how to do this

Enchanted Garden: Strong Somnalius Flower
The player only needs to pick one for Hantu but if all are found then they get moved to the Peryite Shrine for a mini quest.
I was thinking of a summon spell for the prize but what?
I should post on TES Alliance for suggestions on that and ideas for the mini quest

When the player returns the ingredients to Hantu the last stage starts.
The enabling of boats is changed again.
Only one is anchored off shore (the one that was previously docked) and the previous ones off shore are now docked.

The Rules:
The player can not be seen poisoning the supplies and therefore not in combat.
If detected they can either fight or escape then sneak back.
There are random patrols of 2-4.
If the player fights then they have limited time to dispose of bodies before the next patrol.
I will script body disposal to be a lot easier than the vanilla method.
If the player is having trouble they can go back to Hantu to ask for help.


I think a lot of this will depend on player stealth. Those patrols are going to keep coming back until the job is done.
Under normal circumstances I think a follower would be a hindrance.
Of course I could turn that around by scripting windows of opportunity.
A window would be where the enemy NPCS are all somewhat closer to the follower than the player.
That could be optional by the player activating the follower for...
Would you like me to defend you or lead the enemy away?
* defend
* distract

 

Edit: the video links I had here no longer exist.

I am not sure whether to get the Voice Actors Project to start looking at the dialogue as yet.

Between finalizing this and the next two episodes I think I can do this in around 2-3 months.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Glowplug