[WIPz] The Dark Spire

[WhoGuru]

I'm loving this one. The water filled desert would look amazing as an outer realm for your tower. and make quite the contrast as well. Not to mention you'd have a tremendous reflection of your tower on the waters as well. Visually I think it would be stunning. Just my two cents.

Though, as Rider says, I'd stay away from red tones. Better to go blue or green or gold, something other than red so your realm doesn't feel like just another oblivion realm knock off.

[WindmillTilter]

I like 3 and 4, would be interesting to see them combined. Kind of a craggy desert world mostly devoid of life, but with portions of it a little softer like the 4th pic.

WT

[Rowan]

These are all good suggestions people. I appreciate it. I'm currently trying to come up with a final landmass shape for the worldspace. I'm trying to import a RAW file into the heightmap editor (I'm using TESAnnwyn, since the RAW is pretty large and I've had difficulty importing it the normal way) See my Rowan's Help Topic in the Study Hall session for more info on that.

But I'm going to really try to get the landmass looking right before I start messing with climate and weather again. It'll take some trial and error and no small amount of patience but I'm confident things will pull through. The Weather and climate might actually be one of the last things that I figure out and decide upon now that I think about it. It would be better to get all the objects placed first, like DarkRider mentioned, especially the Spire itself. I STILL haven't heard from Alizarin. I hope nothing bad has happened to him.

I'm lucky in that the main focus of this worldspace is the Spire, at it's center, so I at least don't have to worry about a ton of "dungeons" (I really despise that word actually, hence the Spire is ABOVE GROUND) Although there will be a few spots of interest to explore. A small crumbling buildings or monuments here and there. A rusted railway and derailed train (maybe you can fix it), skeletal bridges, craters from the fragmented moon, possibly a few dark caves , etc... if you can find them! They might hold useful things you can use to help you conquer the tower.

[Ysne58]

A possibility for people who get frustrated with puzzles but do not want to look at the walkthrough -- a way to look for clues or hints towards solving the puzzles in game. There could be a number of ways to do this, entries in the quest journal, litle notes on scraps of paper, or a journal lying around somewhere.

[Rowan]

What walkthrough?? No. I will incorporate lot's of hints into the mod, which will help solve puzzles or bypass impossible situations, IF the player can find them. I certainly don't want the player to get so stuck that they quit the game in frustration and go searching for a walk through. I want this to be challenging and fun.

[TheArchitect]

It's good to see that The Dark Spire has found a new (and better) home!

I'm looking forward to working on the project full-time once the Forsaken Isles is completed!

I also have an idea to run by you, Rowan; why not give the architecture of the tower a progressively more organic feel the higher it goes? It would probably make for some creepy impressions to see the architecture subtly change from classic Dwemer to something that is still identifiable with the Dwemer but markedly alien at the same time, while providing plenty of visual cues that the tower could be a living, breathing thing. You could always explain it as a symptom of the madness and paranoia that was taking hold of the builders' collective imagination, and you could even insinuate that there could be more to it than simple madness (I think that's been brought up already). Perhaps the player finds alien ruins on other islands that they gain access to through portals in the Dark Spire that strongly resemble elements of the Dwemer architecture created at the height of their madness. It would be even more disconcerting for the player if they could watch as the Dwemer architecture begins to lose its signature look and become progressively more like a corrupted version of the alien ruins, like a twisted, rotting corpse resembles a living human being. That would be a pretty tough juggling act to pull off, but I have a few ideas how it could be done. When the time comes I'll try my hand at making some concept sketches and see how it goes.

[Sitruk]

Looks great, good luck on your modding.

[Rowan]

Architect, I am very glad to have your confidence and interest in this project. It gives me hope! I will be very glad to have your assistance with this project. Don't forget to introduce yourself to the rest of the forum (and get an avatar ).

I like your ideas, a lot. I always knew that I wanted to explore the Dwemer personality, especially when it is bent to madness and obsession. I also look forward to developing this new twisted Dwemer style. Some concept art (just someone else's ideas)

I will definitely make the tower change the higher you go. I also like the idea of there being separate worlds that you can unlock and visit through use of their portal technology.

However, I'm not so sure about there being a separate Alien culture before the Dwemer. I will have to think about that one. I suppose it would make sense, and would explain a lot, but it warrants further consideration.

[Rowan]

Some of you may be familiar with the Tower of Babel. Yet another treasure trove of inspiration and ideas to delve into.

Here is some information regarding this tower (link)

It's somewhat ironic, and interesting, that to this day we continue to build higher and higher towers (in real life).

[TheArchitect]

Well, after thinking about how much effort would have to go into finding creative and interesting ways to seemlessly merge 3 distinct looks (alien, Dwemer and organic) into a single graduated style of architecture, I'm not so sure about it either, lol. It would be a nice touch, I think, and depending on what you plan to do it could give some clues to the backstory, but I have to wonder how well we'd be able to pull it off. Too bad we're not trained, professional game developers.

I especially like that pic of the portal, that's pretty close to how I'd imagine the Dwemer would have built theirs "under the influence", as it were. Interesting pic of the Tower of Babel, btw...Dwemer architecture does have some Persian-esque influences according to some people, and Babylonian architecture was a precursor to Persian.

As for parallels with the story, I wonder if the Et'ada's power was supposed to reach beyond the boundaries of Nirn according to lore, or if the lore is silent about that...That account of the last Dwarf escaping the Dwemer holocaust makes me wonder. I don't know how well the community would respond to it, but you could always hint at a separate set of deities that rule the Outer Realms and use that as the crux of the backstory. Someone a little more knowledgeable could probably tell us if there are even supposed to be any deities specific to the Outer Realms according to lore. Anyway, maybe the deity who ruled that particular plane went mad and destroyed its original inhabitants (if you decide you want to use the alien culture idea), and was thoroughly insane by the time the Dwemer got there, which could explain why they started to go yumpy. Or maybe the deities of the Outer Realms are just so alien that the Dwemer were unwittingly subverted and driven to insanity because they didn't really belong there, and some deity decided to manifest itself within the very metal and stonework of the tower...to become the tower itself. A bit of an ante-up on the original living tower idea, but it could still work. Who's to say that the deities of the Outer Realms would be truly aware of any individual being from Nirn that sets foot in the Outer Realms, or that they would even be sentient in the same way as the Et'ada? Even though, I'm not that clear on exactly how the Aedra are supposed to be sentient.

One last idea for now, and I think this is my personal favorite despite the fact that it's a complete departure from the standard Elder Scrolls mythology archetype: The Outer Realm deities could be Gaia-esque amalgams of all the living things in their planes of existence, like spiritual super-organisms. This does have a certain appeal to me, since it really sets the Outer Realms completely apart from Nirn. The Dwemer could have been driven mad as they slowly became absorbed into the collective "life force" of their particular plane and started to become aware of the collective memories of all the things that had ever lived there. Their lack of understanding of what was happening to them and the hallucinations and delusions that probably would have caused would certainly explain their paranoia and their need to defend themselves from their own phantasms by settings traps everywhere. Perhaps the reason that the tower seems to manifest its living qualities is because of a sort of spiritual echo or imprint left behind when the Dwemer were finally destroyed by their madness, which has been sustained by the collective "memory" of the deity super-organism of that plane. As a matter of act, you could even suggest that the reason that the plane is a barren wasteland is because the Dwemer's alien presence disrupted the balance of nature so badly that when they were destroyed, everything else went with it. Normally you'd think that the removal of the Dwemer would tend to let things eventually rebalance themselves, but the whole idea is that things don't work by the usual set of rules in the Outer Realms.

Well that's enough brainstorming for one night. Besides, I think I'd better stop before I burst a blood vessel .

[Rowan]

Wow. that's a lot to swallow. But I like it. It's deep stuff, and the deeper the story and lore behind this, the better the mod will be. I will contemplate your words further after I've eaten some dinner!

[WhoGuru]

I am seriously loving those ideas Architect. As for the Outer Realms and the dieties that may or may not be there, I've found little in the Library, Lore wise, about them.

From the Definitive Guide to the Dwemer:

Some might say that, in this respect, the Dwemer were "blasphemous". They challenged the power of the Et'Ada (Aedra and Daedra), questioned their authority, and travelled into the "Outer Realms". These factors may have led to their demise.

The Outer Realms refers to that which is outside of Nirn, whether it be Aetherius, Oblivion, or some other "location" in the Aurbis is unknown.

Now this next bit comes from "On Places Not Here" and is really interesting and has some possibilites:

The Outer Realms in the Void are places where streams of magic make existence possible. As random flows of Magicka burst into the Void, things start to happen. If the incoming flow stabilizes, the newly created realm might stay in existence for a while.

Now, the Oblivion Realms are often described as "Outer Realms" as well. This from "Arena Supermundus:

The Tapestry of Heaven":

Since Oblivion is coterminous with the plane of Nirn, travel there has happened since time immemorial. Because of this, its quarters are the most mapped and charted of all the outer realms, though there is still much more mystery than understanding.

Also, if you read through spell lists of Summons in the Library, you see that all summoned creatures are said to be pulled from the "Outer Realms" whether they're Daedra or Ancestral Ghosts.

Basically, I'd say the possibilities are endless here.

[TheArchitect]

Dinner sounds good... I could eat enough for three people after writing up that post, lol.

EDIT: @ WhoGuru: Oh great, more stuff to contemplate, lol. Actually I was working under the misconception that Oblivion was between Nirn and the Outer Realms, so thanks for bringing that up again and clearing things up for me . Not sure how or where I got that from. Anyway, I'm glad that the ideas pass muster on the lore end of things. I've probably done enough damage for now, so I'll just let Rowan have his dinner and keep quiet for awhile.

Besides, if start off on another brainstorm I probably will hurt myself

[Rowan]

Those images are "skewing the forum" I'll edit them so they don't do that. I'm surprised nobody mentioned this to me!

[WhoGuru]

Those images are "skewing the forum" I'll edit them so they don't do that. I'm surprised nobody mentioned this to me!

They're not actually, the forum autosizes them to the acceptable 400X400.There's always a bit of extra room in threads. Just a quirk of TESA. Now, the images in the first post of my WIP thread really do skew the forum, but that's because I put them side by side for effect. LOL

[Rowan]

For me, whenever the page first starts to load, the images are huge (their actual size) and they they get re-sized again. It's somewhat annoying, but if nobody minds it, I'll leave them the way they are. I like how you can click on them and see a larger image. And I really do love my concept art. It took me some effort to find that stuff. If anyone else happens to find any inspiring works, feel free to post them.

Photobucket is definitely having some issues right now!

[grond]

And I really do love my concept art. It took me some effort to find that stuff.

Yes indeed, those Geiger-esque pics of the fleshy machines are absolutely stunning! They inspired me for my latest little tidbit in the Tavern Tales thread. I can't further your ideas, but I wanted to thank you for the pics and wish you good luck with your work!

[Rowan]

Grond, you are most welcome. There will no doubt be more art to come.

I've officiallly joined the Forsaken Isles team, and am currently working on a Deadric Shrine. I've been following the progress of the Forsaken Isles for a while and wanted to do what I can to see it finished as it looks to be a very good mod. Phitt has told me that I may use his wonderful models and textures (mostly the dwemer tilesets and creatures) in the Dark Spire when the Forsaken Isles is released. But I wanted to contribute some of my time to help see his mod finished so I didn't feel like I was getting something for nothing.

This is a chance for me to practice using the CS and also working with a modding team.

Until the Forsaken Isles is released, the Dark Spire will be looming in the background. If you want, you can keep posting any ideas you think of. You know that I would appreciate anything.

[TheArchitect]

Guess it's my turn to supply some concept art . I made this sketch while working out the details on some of the machinery I'm in the processing of modeling for Sheogorad/Vvardenfell Recreated, but the more I looked at it the more I thought it would fit right in with the look and feel we're developing for this very special group of Dwemer. For some reason, this makes me think of the portal technology. Anyway, here it is:

Not quite as Gieger-esque as what you've already posted, but I hope you'll agree it'll provide a pretty good template. Hmm, I guess it does have a certain "anime" quality to it.

Cheers!

[WhoGuru]

Oh now that is sweet Architect!! It does have a certain anime quality. Makes me think of "Last Exile" actually! LOL I love it!

[WindmillTilter]

Definitely fits in, nice looking sketch Architect, all my concept drawings look like recess time at preschool.

WT

[TheArchitect]

Thanks guys I'll definitely have to check out "The Last Exile"; did a quick internet search but didn't come up with any decent technology pics, mostly characters

[WhoGuru]

Thanks guys I'll definitely have to check out "The Last Exile"; did a quick internet search but didn't come up with any decent technology pics, mostly characters

Oh I think I can find a couple! I know, off topic kinda, but I gotta. LOL

There's a few, though I highly recommend the series for a better look.

[TheArchitect]

Well, now you've done it, now I'm gonna have to rent the whole series!

Hehe, seriously though, it looks really interesting, will definitely have to rent it off of Netflix. Now that we're completely off-topic It's been awhile since I sat down with a really good anime series...I think the last would've been Full Metal Alchemist.

Ha, now there's a crazy idea... An FMA-style enchantment/item creation system for The Dark Spire! Why not? I'm already creating a completely new elemental property-based Dwemer alchemy system for Sheogorad/Vvardenfell, and the hardest part of that is setting up a UI that works well for it (which actually is a problem, since you can't create new menus except using messageboxes and DarnifiedUI's tricks with embedded containers and inventory tokens).

[Rowan]

Nice drawing. It definitely fits in with my vision. This project is so huge!! much larger than I had ever imagined. A whole new game even. Jeez.

Edited for relevance.