Stackable Oblivion

[Critterman]

Maybe having it level off at .5 after a wile. Each time you add a new item to it it only goes up by .5 of the new item. Would remove getting ubber items real fast.

.5? a 9 damage sword times 0.5 = 4.5 or dividing it by 2. I was thinking of leveling off around 1.01 which at really high level weapons (like 100) increases the value by only one. But it would probably go like this:

1-3: 1.5

4-6: 1.3

7-9: 1.2

10-12: 1.1

13-15: 1.08

16-18: 1.06

19-24: 1.05

25-30: 1.04

31-40: 1.03

41-79: 1.025

80+: 1.01

This way the damage or AR would usually only increase by one point when you stack.The Oblivion engine seems to store the true values of the items (as in like 5.95) so if you were to stack once and the value doesn't change then you can be sure it will next time because you would be very close to the next value.

[The_Laughing_Man]

.5? a 9 damage sword times 0.5 = 4.5 or dividing it by 2. I was thinking of leveling off around 1.01 which at really high level weapons (like 100) increases the value by only one. But it would probably go like this:

1-3: 1.5

4-6: 1.3

7-9: 1.2

10-12: 1.1

13-15: 1.08

16-18: 1.06

19-24: 1.05

25-30: 1.04

31-40: 1.03

41-79: 1.025

80+: 1.01

This way the damage or AR would usually only increase by one point when you stack.The Oblivion engine seems to store the true values of the items (as in like 5.95) so if you were to stack once and the value doesn't change then you can be sure it will next time because you would be very close to the next value.

Lol I feel like I helped. Any idea when the new version will be out? Ill grab it then.

[tejon]

re: inherent stacking limits through math... I can solve the problem for you right quick for armor. (Weapons will take a bit more thinking; they can potentially have damage > 100, though none in Vanilla do. If you want to assume they won't, this will work for them too.)

Daedric shield AR: 22.5

Total immunity: 100

100 - 22.5 = 77.5%

This is the amount of damage which passes through a Daedric shield. Convert it from percent to multiplier.

77.5 / 100 = 0.775

Now instead of putting a multiplier on this, we're going to use my favorite trick: exponents on values between 0 and 1 will always yield values between 0 and 1, and you can get all sorts of nice curves out of this. Picking the exponent is a pretty random process; let's just grab the one for calculating spell cost from magnitude, which is a similar balance point when you think about it. So: 1.28.

0.775 ^ 1.28 = 0.721616

Convert it back to an AR value...

1 - 0.721616 = 0.278384 * 100 = 27.8384 for a Daedric Shield stacked with itself; about a 23.7% improvement.

Stacking another on top requires no special handling, just follow the same process. I'll shortcut the beginning math since we already know how it converts to decimal-damage-received:

0.721616 ^ 1.28 = 0.658615 = AR 34.1385, only 22.6% better.

Stack it again:

0.658615 ^ 1.28 = 0.607844 = AR 39.2156, down to a mere 14.8% improvement. The benefit will continue to shrink.

To see how it stacks up (haha) at the other end:

Fur Bracer = AR 2 = 0.98 damage through.

0.98 ^ 1.28 = 0.974472 = AR 2.5528 (first stack: +27.6%)

0.974472 ^ 1.28 = 0.967442 = AR 3.2558 (second stack: +27.5%)

0.967442 ^ 1.28 = 0.958517 = AR 4.1483 (third stack: +27.4%)

...as you can see, the decay in effectiveness is slower, which IMO is a desirable result; the worst stuff has the most room for improvement!

If you want to get REALLY clever, make the exponent itself a function of the player's Armorer skill... that would replace gaining extra stacks from Armorer.

Anyway, in OBSE v0018 code, here's the formula:

let temp := 1 - (oldAR / 100)

let temp ^= 1.28

let newAR := 100 * (1 - temp)

[Critterman]

re: inherent stacking limits through math... I can solve the problem for you right quick for armor. (Weapons will take a bit more thinking; they can potentially have damage > 100, though none in Vanilla do. If you want to assume they won't, this will work for them too.)

Daedric shield AR: 22.5

Total immunity: 100

100 - 22.5 = 77.5%

This is the amount of damage which passes through a Daedric shield. Convert it from percent to multiplier.

77.5 / 100 = 0.775

Now instead of putting a multiplier on this, we're going to use my favorite trick: exponents on values between 0 and 1 will always yield values between 0 and 1, and you can get all sorts of nice curves out of this. Picking the exponent is a pretty random process; let's just grab the one for calculating spell cost from magnitude, which is a similar balance point when you think about it. So: 1.28.

0.775 ^ 1.28 = 0.721616

Convert it back to an AR value...

1 - 0.721616 = 0.278384 * 100 = 27.8384 for a Daedric Shield stacked with itself; about a 23.7% improvement.

Stacking another on top requires no special handling, just follow the same process. I'll shortcut the beginning math since we already know how it converts to decimal-damage-received:

0.721616 ^ 1.28 = 0.658615 = AR 34.1385, only 22.6% better.

Stack it again:

0.658615 ^ 1.28 = 0.607844 = AR 39.2156, down to a mere 14.8% improvement. The benefit will continue to shrink.

To see how it stacks up (haha) at the other end:

Fur Bracer = AR 2 = 0.98 damage through.

0.98 ^ 1.28 = 0.974472 = AR 2.5528 (first stack: +27.6%)

0.974472 ^ 1.28 = 0.967442 = AR 3.2558 (second stack: +27.5%)

0.967442 ^ 1.28 = 0.958517 = AR 4.1483 (third stack: +27.4%)

...as you can see, the decay in effectiveness is slower, which IMO is a desirable result; the worst stuff has the most room for improvement!

If you want to get REALLY clever, make the exponent itself a function of the player's Armorer skill... that would replace gaining extra stacks from Armorer.

Anyway, in OBSE v0018 code, here's the formula:

let temp := 1 - (oldAR / 100)

let temp ^= 1.28

let newAR := 100 * (1 - temp)

WOW! that's really helpful... I'm scared of computer math but after reading it over a few times it seems relatively simple (math is not a strong point of mine )

I'm definitely going to use that over my own choppy formula. The initial benefit that comes off the daedric shield seems a little bit much, but I guess it'll be fine if it decreases over time, I would hate to shrink the formula cause the gain off of the AR 2 bracers seems perfect.

And about factoring the player's armorer skill in...after playing around with the calculator, I was thinking of something like this:

let skill := player.getav armorer

let skill := skill / 500

let skill := skill + 1.28

let temp := 1 - (oldAR / 100)

let temp ^= skill

let newAR := 100 * (1 - temp)

With the daedric shield and the player's armorer skill at max 100 then the stack would end up around: 31.452 AR

On the other end of the spectrum with Fur Bracer with 2 AR to begin with and a player armorer skill at max of 100 the initial stack comes to almost 3.

I'm not sure if this is enough of an increase honestly and my opinions are usually completely different in this area than most of the community but that ini file should solve it, me thinks

[tejon]

And about factoring the player's armorer skill in...

To be honest, while working out the math is fun (IMO: 1 + skill/200), after some consideration I think I prefer having the number of stacks be Armorer-based, with a fixed exponent. The reason is that it turns out to be in the user's favor not to stack any items until late-game when he can get the best bonus; even an early-game 2-stack item having a 3rd stack added by a Master, isn't as good as if the Master just starts with three and stacks them all at once. Players are very good at hoarding things for later, any encouragement to Do It Now is a good thing IMO.

Regarding weapons... might as well just use the same method, really. Top end in the vanilla game is 20, IIRC? Things can't get too out of hand. Just refuse to stack anything with 99+ damage!

Also, this should exercise Armorer skill if that skill is to have any effect on it! And by quite a lot, I think... 5 repairs' worth or so.

Re: the Daedric Shield -- I picked that because it's the absolute highest AR in the game, and 26% is only 6% more than the 1.2x multiplier you'd been using. And then it drops fast. I think it's good.

[Critterman]

To be honest, while working out the math is fun (IMO: 1 + skill/200), after some consideration I think I prefer having the number of stacks be Armorer-based, with a fixed exponent. The reason is that it turns out to be in the user's favor not to stack any items until late-game when he can get the best bonus; even an early-game 2-stack item having a 3rd stack added by a Master, isn't as good as if the Master just starts with three and stacks them all at once. Players are very good at hoarding things for later, any encouragement to Do It Now is a good thing IMO.

Regarding weapons... might as well just use the same method, really. Top end in the vanilla game is 20, IIRC? Things can't get too out of hand. Just refuse to stack anything with 99+ damage!

Also, this should exercise Armorer skill if that skill is to have any effect on it! And by quite a lot, I think... 5 repairs' worth or so.

Re: the Daedric Shield -- I picked that because it's the absolute highest AR in the game, and 26% is only 6% more than the 1.2x multiplier you'd been using. And then it drops fast. I think it's good.

I really like that... I think that should even eliminate the need to factor in a player's level. Thanks for all the help !

I'm finally getting the limiting of the stacks to sort of work, so I should add all of these formulas into the script soon.

Edit: Btw, I'm going to credit you in the readme for your advice