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CK Basics: Final Exam

DarkRider

By DarkRider
in Creation Kit Basics

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DarkRider Grand Master

DarkRider

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Ashenfire:

Your final exam had a lot of cool stuff going on but there were some things that were not executed as well as maybe they could have been. Let's start with what's good. Location is great, the stable is quite nice. I'm a huge fan of mashup kit sets, when done well, they can really bring something special to the game. It was a bold choice in your interior, but I think you did fairly well with it. I'm not sure pairing the heavy stone carved steps with the farmhouse was a good pairing, some wooden steps might have fit in better, alternatively, making the basement match the steps would flow better too. Food for thought.

 

Overall most of the technical points were fine. You did have some technical errors though. The wall baskets on the top floor are backwards, you have walls and floors that overlap in places and cause flickering in game, The lighting choices are very overpowering in most areas it washed out the textures of your kits. Your inner door and exterior door don't match; if you want to use the DB door that fine, but the inside should match it better. :yes:

 

Aesthetically, the house was fairly sparse and lacked character, things that could have been really special were glossed over with lots of duplications. There's an excessive amount of prize material in the basement, grand soulgems, tons of ingots, too much of this stuff free for the picking can really unbalance your location gameplay wise; a good rule of thumb is don't make it so easy unless you are specifically trying to make a cheat mod. For example, would have been better to use static crates filled with static ingots for decor without making them useable. Also, when using duplication, rotating the individual instances so they look less uniform gives a more natural feel. Dozens of things lined exactly the same way is visually bland; that applies to your crops outside too.

 

Overall, I'm scoring this a 20 out of 30 for the technical errors and the lack of presentation. I really expected to see you go all out since you had some advanced practice, some of your technical show off points like the hidden doors were cool, but overall it felt kind of like I wasn't seeing what you can do, just going through the motions. I hope we'll see an update in the future, my assassin likes the location :D

 

20 points means you have passed the CK Basics course so congratulations on your achievement! :dance:

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Final Examination: Non-Release Option This is the Non-Release Exam form, in completing these exam requirements you will complete the CK Basics course and earn a CK Basics Medal. Non-Release means th

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Welcome to the Final Exams   At last you arrive at your final challenge in the CK Basics course, time to put all that you've learned to the test and see what you can accomplish on your own. You can re

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Final Examination: Release Option Release is not required for completing the CK Basics course and earning a CK Basics Medal, but if you do this Release Option form, release here on TES Alliance or on

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Ashenfire Scout

Ashenfire

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the reply.   

 

 

Yikes.  I never saw that wall structure before.  Not going through motions, it was new to me.

Lots of trial and error.  Going free style without grid snapping is quite tedious and challenging.

 

I was trying something new.  You taught in the tutorial to use the trap door transition.  I was

trying to challenge myself and not use the transition.  I also know from experience people

complain about transitions; even though I usually don't.    So I thought it was different. 

 

I agree with the stone stairways.  I just couldn't figure how to make it wood; and spiral down in

the same house space.  I never claimed I was an expert.  I barely pass as intermediate.

 

You probably won't give points back, but I disagree with the free stuff, I don't do that in an actual quest. 

I wouldn't give the house away either.  It wasn't free as you say because I would have finished it with house purchase dialogue and made the player earn the stuff down stairs.  So I don't see where I went wrong.  I agree by the way just doling stuff out ruins the game; but it did have a purpose.

 

I see what you mean about the door.  I will have to remember that next time.  That is something I over looked.  Those embarassing baskets, my fault  for not quadruple checking.

 

I am confused about the lighting.  I had no lanterns at the exam time, that was for a player special request.  Not sure if this made a difference or not. It wasn't red in the lighting view.  It was violet and blue.

 

In fact, in playing mode, it was dark when you walk in the topside of the house, with the lighting.  Lighting is a new area for me so I need to know why I suck.    It was supposed to be a dark motif. 

 

I could have splurged with clutter and I wish I did now, especially since thieves steal a lot of loot.  It would have gone with the motif.  I somehow thought  you would dock points for it looking like a random dumping ground.  Hopefully I will not make that mistake in the future.

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DarkRider Grand Master

DarkRider

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Yikes. I never saw that wall structure before. Not going through motions, it was new to me.

Lots of trial and error. Going free style without grid snapping is quite tedious and challenging.

Yes it is tedious and challenging and was not a requirement of the exam, it was your stylistic choice. I praised the boldness of that decision and said that I thought overall you did very well with it. However, if you're going outside the box you're accountable for technical flaws like seams and overlaps.

My comment about "going through the motions" applies to the overall feel of the piece as a whole. It's clear you spent a lot of time putting the interior together, but once you had it together, the design fell flat. You used a lot of filler items like empty displays and mannequins, and over duplicated shelves to "fill" the space but it didn't feel like there was a lot of effort made in that respect which was a shame considering how much effort you DID expend on actually making the interior kit out of bits of wood.

I was trying something new. You taught in the tutorial to use the trap door transition. I was

trying to challenge myself and not use the transition. I also know from experience people

complain about transitions; even though I usually don't. So I thought it was different.

I thought this was well executed, I didn't say anything negative about this. :shrug:

You probably won't give points back, but I disagree with the free stuff, I don't do that in an actual quest.

I wouldn't give the house away either. It wasn't free as you say because I would have finished it with house purchase dialogue and made the player earn the stuff down stairs. So I don't see where I went wrong. I agree by the way just doling stuff out ruins the game; but it did have a purpose.

While I commented on this, I didn't deduct points for this. That said, if a student wants to make repairs and resubmit an exam to earn back additional points, I have always been willing to give a second review. :yes:

 

I am confused about the lighting. I had no lanterns at the exam time, that was for a player special request. Not sure if this made a difference or not. It wasn't red in the lighting view. It was violet and blue.

In fact, in playing mode, it was dark when you walk in the topside of the house, with the lighting. Lighting is a new area for me so I need to know why I suck. It was supposed to be a dark motif.

I understand it's supposed to be dark, that's not the issue. To be clear though, I don't think you suck, constructive feedback is not a personal jab, don't take it personally. :) To illustrate the lighting issues, I've done some before and afters of your lighting, and then adjusted.

Example 01

LightingAshen_zps730d2a58.png

Note how harshly that light hits that rug and wall, it's so close and the radius so wide that it's reflective to the point of painful.

Reduce the radius and distance for a softer effect:

LightingRider_zpsee3df9f4.jpg

Lighting Example 02:

LightingAshen02_zps6ae420f9.jpg

Again on the wall look at that hotspot on the fur, too too close!

This is better:

LightingRider02_zps90f56664.jpg

 

I could have splurged with clutter and I wish I did now, especially since thieves steal a lot of loot. It would have gone with the motif. I somehow thought you would dock points for it looking like a random dumping ground. Hopefully I will not make that mistake in the future.

Random dumping ground is actually kind of how it does look. There's just a few bits of junk tossed about in only a couple spots, the rest is just filler as I said above. Design balance is in crafting something dynamic and visually appealing. Take this for example:

ShelvesAshen_zpsb1b3fb14.jpg

Does this look organic to you? I mean, does it feel natural? What I see is a bland visual palette, no character, everything duplicated exactly the same and a ton of empty space. Compare it to this:

ShelvesRider_zps6a8141fb.jpg

Same area, but now the space is being utilized, the art on the wall draws the eye up, the shelves are unique and say "Explore me! See what treasures I hold!" It's not "splurging with clutter" to create a design within a space, it's capitalizing on the space you've created to develop something which draws players in. You can tell a story without dialogue and quests. ;)

Another example:

ShelvesAshen02_zps095fab68.jpg

More overlighting and duplication, really a shame in this unique space. Also, dont use statics like piles of rugs to conceal design flaws like logs poking through, better to adjust the wall position so they don't poke through. :)

Instead:

ShelvesRider02_zps4a3445ea.jpg

Reduce that lighting, and use variety and creativity to develop your space! :D

I agree with the stone stairways. I just couldn't figure how to make it wood; and spiral down in

the same house space. I never claimed I was an expert. I barely pass as intermediate.

I do understand you are not an expert, what I meant by "advanced experience" was "prior experience" as you have made a few mods before. You already have a lot of the techniques you need in place you just needed to get the right pieces, something like this using the canal stairs and the same wall/floor pieces to box them in is quite effective in this space:

RiderStairs_zps60050015.jpg

----------------------------

In some respects you consistently demonstrate a creative style, so don't sell yourself short. :good:

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Ashenfire Scout

Ashenfire

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Sweet.  Those stairs were exactly what I was looking for! :read:

 

 

I don't mind constructive criticism btw.  I was actually admitting that when it comes to lights and stuff, that I suck.   So I am glad I got the visuals

from those pictures.  It improves me.  I have a kinestetic learning style so that helps me alot.  It is something I will be able to keep in mind for all designs.

I have learned for instance:  Just because it is violet and blue...it is not enough.  These lights apparently bug peoples sensitivities, I hadn't thought of it.

Great feedback :thumbup:      

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DarkRider Grand Master

DarkRider

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You might want to practice moving the light close to a wall and away, and close again for a few repetitions to train your eye to see how hotspots and texture blurring form from lights that are too close or bright. You can see this in the CK as long as the ambient worklight is toggled off (tap A).

Glad to see you're still working at it :good:

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Ashenfire Scout

Ashenfire

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I have 19 subscribers on this mod.  I seriously revamped the downstairs and did a lot of experiments with lights.

I experimented with new lights you will see in the remake. 

I moved containers around and all my weapon racks.  I did not delete any.

I have deleted alot of the gems / iron bars etc on the shelves and am in the process of re doing the shelves.

 

So my question is, should I make this a new mod with a similar name, or just directly upload it to the same server and hope the

19 subscribers don't complain?    

 

I wanted to make it purchasable and not easy to obtain, but people might see a break in immersion if I do it now.

I am thinking of backing off on this part.

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DarkRider Grand Master

DarkRider

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Since you're releasing on Steam, which doesn't allow multiple files for one mod, Id release it separately with the same name plus a 2.0. Make sure you highlight what's different!

Awesome energy, can feel how enthusiastic you are about the work you're doing that's terrific!

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Ashenfire Scout

Ashenfire

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Posted

Seems like pressing 's' and resizing will size the light value easier than creating new light objects with new radius values.

I use 'A' constantly to also  see if light is seeping through cracks.  I love hot keys.  I rarely click on menu buttons.

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Ashenfire Scout

Ashenfire

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Sigh......I believe I was going to challenge a portion of the grade.  But, no longer..... :pinch:

I went ahead and fixed most of what you mentioned.  My problem is I no longer like it.

 

It makes no sense to me, to put a forge and a smelter (both are fiery hot), onto a

wooden floor.  Not to mention carbon dioxide, metal vapor poisonings, no air stack

to the outside.

 

So why did I do it in the first place?  To help the player do all stations

in the same area.  I get complaints about going through a transitional doorway.

 

I moved them outside anyways, hoping the player doesn't mind walking.

 

My depth perception did not pay off.  The dimensions are wrong.

I put an alchemy room in a location that makes no sense.

It is right behind the door that people enter from.

This immersion is bugging me.

 

I tried turning the room portion with the door, but it does not line up.

 

I did not want it to be a manor.  Its dimensions turned up making it

a manor size anyways.  It is not the 'comfy'  den I was looking for.

 

I was creating the miniature story line complete with keys, earning the house.

Now I wonder if I am wasting my time or worrying too much.

 

So, how do players look at that perspective?  Will they not like it because of

the alchemy room behind an entrance door? 

Will they complain about splitting up crafting locations?

Will they complain if I do NOT put all crafting items there, for instance

enchanter table, tanning rack?

 

The room is large enough, that the only way to light it, is to put lights high and low,

this will show 'red' and any thing less will strain the eyes trying to see in the dark.

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DarkRider Grand Master

DarkRider

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It makes no sense to me, to put a forge and a smelter (both are fiery hot), onto a

wooden floor.  Not to mention carbon dioxide, metal vapor poisonings, no air stack

to the outside.

 

So why did I do it in the first place?  To help the player do all stations

in the same area.  I get complaints about going through a transitional doorway.

 

I moved them outside anyways, hoping the player doesn't mind walking.

In the vanilla game, most forges are outside for just the reasons you mentioned, I think immersion players will appreciate the realism of the walk outside, besides, gives them more to do in the exterior.

 

My depth perception did not pay off.  The dimensions are wrong.

I put an alchemy room in a location that makes no sense.

It is right behind the door that people enter from.

This immersion is bugging me.

I found this element a bit odd too but I liked the room regardless so didn't deduct points. For better immersion, what about adding a doorway in the basement to the left of the stairs and adding the room there? Or since the forge is outside, maybe move the alchemy room in its place.

 

So, how do players look at that perspective?  Will they not like it because of

the alchemy room behind an entrance door? 

Will they complain about splitting up crafting locations?

Will they complain if I do NOT put all crafting items there, for instance

enchanter table, tanning rack?

Don't over think this stuff. most players will try lots of different homes looking for the one they like best. Some will like your house just the way it is, others will move onto something else. Some may complain, but yet others will just open it in the CK and tweak it to their tastes no matter what you do. So the best approach is to just make location you are happy with. Others will enjoy what you make. :good:
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LobeDethfaurt Disciple

LobeDethfaurt

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Posted (edited)

Urg...here goes nothing.

I've decided to make a release version mod. Wish me luck.

 

I present to you: Riverview Retirement Retreat!

 

Not far from Riften, a quiet little slice of heaven is waiting for you! Now, today only, this house can be yours for the low, low price of...nothing!

 

Ok, on with the pics. Please bear with me, there are quite a few.

 

First, in-game screenshots.

 

Overview - Exterior:

 

Interior:

 

Ok, I know...enough with the vanity shots! Get on with the technical stuff!

(Yes, stuff is a technical term  :P )

 

I'll show navmeshes, inside and out, respectively:

 
I couldn't do the navmesh from the bottom here because, when you go just under the ground, you get water. I had to raise up the house in order to get it, and then I just dropped it straight back down.
 
Ok, Interior clutter shots, in CK:
 

 

...and exterior shots:

 
...I sear that I'm missing something... :blink:
 
...ANYWAY...
 
Ok, I remember. Custom containers, lights, etc:

Location Page:

 

That was a lot of work. I'm not going to promise that I didn't add any surprises into the room.  :angel: But enough about that!

 

I haven't released it yet because I can't figure it out, but I'll get there and add the link ASAP.

 

I have to say that I've really enjoyed this class. I've learned a lot, the most important being the fact that I don't need to be afraid of the creation kit  :unsure:...welll, most of the time, anyway...

 

If I have missed anything, please let me know and I will fix it and post pics ASAP.

 

Thank you very much!

 

       -LobeDethfaurt

 

EDIT: A small change...I fixed the horse not connecting to the cart thing...had to add a platform. I re-navmeshed it also.

 

EDIT #2: I forgot to add the screenshot of the map...here it is:

 
Ok...I really think that is it.
 
In case you are wondering about the horse and cart, i just found the one outside of Whiterun, copied and pasted...easy as, well, copying and pasting  :P .
Edited by LobeDethfaurt
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DarkRider Grand Master

DarkRider

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Hi Lobe, I've given your exam a good play through and a look over in the CK. There were some things that could use some work, but that mostly applies to your extra additions that are outside the purview of this exam so I didn't deduct any points for those things. Overall your exam was well done, simple but well crafted. I only have a couple notes from the exterior. Anytime you use duplications, like in your garden you want to make sure to stagger and rotate the instances so they don't look duplicated, it looks inorganic then. Also, avoid using Nirnroots near a home exterior, they make a lot of noise and are irritating. :lmao:

 

Overall everything else looked great, full marks, congratulations you have passed the CK Basics course! :dance:

 

A couple notes on your extras. The dollhouse itself in the house is cute, it's a nice touch. The dollhouse interior is....weird; in fact I'd remove it altogether. It's design structure is not very clear, you enter a tiny house and inside the scale is all mixed mashed with huge things and tiny things. There's an NPC that is supposed to give some sort of clarity but the dialogue is not setup correctly you only have the player responses, no dialogue for the actual character so that needs some tuning because it's only half a convo it's confusing. The basement is full of carnage, yet none of the NPCs there are hostile so who killed all those others? Why is all this stuff here? What's the purpose? Overall, some poor design choices made in the dollhouse.

 

When you quest design and level design, things should have a cohesive flow and purpose. For example, maybe the tiny dollhouse leads into a tiny interior where tiny people lived, and maybe you take a quest from them to find the enchanter in the real world who imprisoned them there, kill the enchanter, break the spell and the tiny people are freed and normal size again. Then as a bonus you get to keep the tiny dollhouse to yourself as a secret player safe house and all the rewards found inside it. This is cohesive designing. I would recommend giving your dollhouse better flow and purpose, or cut the interior and just leave it as a cute showpiece. As is, it's kind of roughshod. :ok:

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LobeDethfaurt Disciple

LobeDethfaurt

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Posted

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I never thought to turn the crops to make things look more organic; I will keep that in mind in the future.

I know the interior of the house is a bit simplistic, but that was done purposefully; the house is (was) owned by an old, simple farmer and wife. I know that's not very clear in what is there...I guess I should have made that more clear. I originally planned to put a basement in, but it was overshadowed by the dollhouse interior.

The interior of the dollhouse is a work in progress. I totally get what you mean about the scale thing, it does need work. I had a lot of trouble with the woman's dialogue; it just didn't want to work for some reason.

The basement inside the dollhouse doesn't really have any purpose, and will most likely be removed.

Just for clarity, let me run down my idea:

You meet a man in Riften. He tells you that his parents are missing and he wants you to find them. The only clues he gives you are that a) They were last seen at their home, and b) He tells you of his father's obsession with 'enchanted miniatures'. You go to the house, find both the bill of sale on the chest and the book in the bookcase. You figure out that you can go into the dollhouse, where you find his dad dead on the floor below the house. You find his mom, who has clearly lost her mind. She wants you to kill the giant argonian in the house before she will follow you. When you do, and then take her out of the dollhouse, her son will be waiting. He takes his mom and gives you the key to the house. The end (of the quest).

I'm having trouble with some of the quest mechanics...like scripting and whatnot...but it's all a learning process.

I really enjoyed this class; thank-you!

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elfmoose Disciple

elfmoose

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Posted

I finally got it done - the release version!  Hopefully I uploaded the file and resources correctly:  http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/files/file/1578-elfmoose-farmzip/

 

My goal was to create a compact house with lots of storage, all crafting items and a place to display keen weapons and armor so I could actually SEE them.  It's nearly impossible to see things with a busy stone wall behind them.  I really like the farmhouse with the porch for smithing. Basically I made the house that caused me to look into modding in the first place.

 

Also, I tried to install a working bookshelf but couldn't figure it out inspite of having detailed instructions.  All books I put on the shelves zoomed to one side and fluttered like they were trying to escape.  I gave up on it.

 

Here are screenshots of the assorted requirements.  The cells I chose were outside Whiterun.  10,1; 10,0 and 10,-1.  The only thing I didn't do was the broken paving stones.  Their dirt was a different color and also, since my lane was coming off a non-stone path it seemed weird to put stones on my path.  Instead I put in two ivy covered stone walls, which look a little like caterpillars.

 

Basement:
Navemesh and some planters, archery practice area and lockpicking practice containers (respawning - and also hopefully re-locking).  I had to find instructions for planters.  Since these are in the basement I altered the grow list to include only mushrooms, fungus, nightshade and deathbell. 

gallery_34849_431_72590.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_30989.jpg

gallery_34849_431_3310.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_95340.jpg

 

Basement lighting:

gallery_34849_431_5122.jpg

 

 

Exterior.

There are lots of little goodies planted all over the place.  Not to excess, hopefully.  I also duplicated some of the insect spawning markers to see if it'd work and it seemed to.  Also, here in Maine folks often mount antlers on their houses and garages.  I took that a step further and mounted some animal heads on the outside of the house.  Also tried to cause the dragon head to glow from inside but it didn't work out.

 

gallery_34849_431_120889.jpg. 

 

gallery_34849_431_21047.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_131205.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_42760.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_17250.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_115715.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_49206.jpg

 

Exterior navmesh of all 3 plots:

gallery_34849_431_42015.jpg

 

Interior, main floor:

Note the chair and fork in the foreground.  I have no idea how they got there but they are NOT in the final version. I just forgot to redo the screenshot.

gallery_34849_431_129190.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_32824.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_79277.jpg

 

 

House navmesh and lighting:

 

gallery_34849_431_59588.jpg

gallery_34849_431_53312.jpg

 

2nd floor:  Yellow wallpaper from Lilith was my solution to more visible weapons but it made it challenging to get the lighting right. I had to remove half the lights from the chandelier and remove the light from the bedroom area.

gallery_34849_431_84578.jpg

 

gallery_34849_431_123009.jpg

 

The light below is no longer in the bedroom area, nor is the light effect.  I changed the light to the farmhouseinterior light and that was still too bright.  I put a jar of butterflies there instead and moved the lighting effect up high as if it was reflecting the chandelier light.

 

gallery_34849_431_75944.jpg

 

 

And here are the dudes in the utility cell for the assorted planters:

 

gallery_34849_431_1355.jpg

 

Let me know if you need more pics of anything.

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elfmoose Disciple

elfmoose

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Posted

I was using my mod yesterday.  Mammoth snouts seem to bounce around when you get too close to them whether havoc settling is turned off or not.  I'm wishing I'd built a room and filled it with several dozen snouts with havoc settling turned on.  I find them hilarious.

 

Also, something killed all my chickens. Do you know of any chicken protection marker?  Would a fence help?

 

And I forgot to mention that the mannequin instructions from the UESP site said they work better if they are on navmesh, so I put them on top of the navmesh.

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  • 1 year later...
Joedpa Apprentice

Joedpa

Posted
Posted (edited)

Final Exam Completition

--Joedpa--                                                                                 

 

I decided to make the Release Version because I wanted to be created in my house mod.

Its name is Aldision House.

Aldision comes from a combination of Latin words that go like this:

High = Altum

Rich = Dives

Mansion = Mansione

 

It is a mansion for rich people high in the mountains after all :D

 

So here it is the screenshots:

 

Main House:

 

Snap_Shot001.pngSnap_Shot01.pngSnap_Shot02.pngSnap_Shot03.pngSnap_Shot04.pngSnap_Shot05.pngSnap_Shot06.pngSnap_Shot07.pngSnap_Shot08.pngSnap_Shot09.png

 

Extra Points Basement:

 

Snap_Shot10.pngSnap_Shot11.pngSnap_Shot12.pngSnap_Shot13.pngSnap_Shot14.png

 

House Exterior:

 

Snap_Shot15.pngSnap_Shot16.png

 

Uploaded File:

http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/files/file/1794-aldision-house/

 

It was a long way from here, and I enjoyed every second of it! :D

Edited by Joedpa
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