[Idea] Morrowind Tool Kit

[InsanitySorrow]

As you all know I have been working on an App for OBlivion and after some thought I think an app for Morrowind that has similar options etc would be nice for the community, since I am unsure if there is a proper Mod Manager for Morrowind.

Maybe this could be it

My question as stated by the Poll, I would like you to post your thoughts if you vote in the poll, in fact post anyway we need more talk about morrowind, the main things I need are:

1) Is this a good idea

2) What functions should it have

3) Ideas on the Colours and style of the GUI

IS

Current Ideas:

Archive Extracting and mod install

Load Order work

INI Tweaks

All from HeyYou

[HeyYou]

OBMM was originally inspired by MMM... Morrowind Mod Manager. I think it was something that timeslip wrote, but, don't quote me on that. As for the usefulness of said utility, I don't know...... The Morrowind ini isn't quite as complex as the oblivion one, though a tool for tweaking some of the more common setting there certainly wouldnt be a bad plan. Being able to manipulate load order, etc, may not be a bad idea either..... being able to install mods out of zip, rar, 7z, etc.... archives would be outstanding.

[InsanitySorrow]

OBMM was originally inspired by MMM... Morrowind Mod Manager. I think it was something that timeslip wrote, but, don't quote me on that. As for the usefulness of said utility, I don't know...... The Morrowind ini isn't quite as complex as the oblivion one, though a tool for tweaking some of the more common setting there certainly wouldnt be a bad plan. Being able to manipulate load order, etc, may not be a bad idea either..... being able to install mods out of zip, rar, 7z, etc.... archives would be outstanding.

Oh cool, wondered where it came from. I know about MWs INI, obviously I would include a few tweaks but the main focus is to give MW a launcher of some degree which makes launching the game easier. Since most modders moved to OB there is not a great deal of choice IIRC in utilities for MW, hence the idea for this.

Reading archives, hmm I am sure I saw something somewhere about that. Will read up because thats a nice idea

[HeyYou]

Oh cool, wondered where it came from. I know about MWs INI, obviously I would include a few tweaks but the main focus is to give MW a launcher of some degree which makes launching the game easier. Since most modders moved to OB there is not a great deal of choice IIRC in utilities for MW, hence the idea for this.

Reading archives, hmm I am sure I saw something somewhere about that. Will read up because thats a nice idea

Yep, something else you want to keep in mind though, is the additional programs that some folks use. Morrowind Enhanced, Morrowind Script Extender, and Morrowind FPS Optimizer. Some folks use all three, and then some...... for some folks, it is important which order you start them in....... also, a fair few of them have their own launchers, and the capacity to launch other apps. It gets really confusing.......

So far as I know, there isn't an utility for morrowind that will take an archived mod, and install it. Just that feature alone would be worth having.

[InsanitySorrow]

Yep, something else you want to keep in mind though, is the additional programs that some folks use. Morrowind Enhanced, Morrowind Script Extender, and Morrowind FPS Optimizer. Some folks use all three, and then some...... for some folks, it is important which order you start them in....... also, a fair few of them have their own launchers, and the capacity to launch other apps. It gets really confusing.......

So far as I know, there isn't an utility for morrowind that will take an archived mod, and install it. Just that feature alone would be worth having.

Hmm it will take some reading to get them all to play nice , I already have some information for reading archives, I just hope I can make something that could do such a thing.

Maybe a mod installer program would be better?, granted I learn what I need

[HeyYou]

Hmm it will take some reading to get them all to play nice , I already have some information for reading archives, I just hope I can make something that could do such a thing.

Maybe a mod installer program would be better?, granted I learn what I need

Seem to be doing pretty good so far..... Something else you might consider...... is having a look at MWSE itself. It hasn't been updated in quite some time, and I would love for a wee bit of added functionality there. There were a couple folks poking at the project, but, so far, I have been waiting over two years for the new version to come out. I know Fliggerty would love you forever.

[InsanitySorrow]

Seem to be doing pretty good so far..... Something else you might consider...... is having a look at MWSE itself. It hasn't been updated in quite some time, and I would love for a wee bit of added functionality there. There were a couple folks poking at the project, but, so far, I have been waiting over two years for the new version to come out. I know Fliggerty would love you forever.

What language is that wrote in?, I am guessing C# or C++, the later I have no knowledge of. The main downside that is digging through the MW exe to find the correct hooks, well thats if its like OBSE.

Ok been reading rather briefly about unzipping archives and I noticed that to do it correctly the mod would need packaged in a certain way. The author would need to zip it so that when you open it you see folders like so:

Meshes

Textures

Sound

ESP

etc

Then they can be easily extracted to the correct directory.

[HeyYou]

What language is that wrote in?, I am guessing C# or C++, the later I have no knowledge of. The main downside that is digging through the MW exe to find the correct hooks, well thats if its like OBSE.

Ok been reading rather briefly about unzipping archives and I noticed that to do it correctly the mod would need packaged in a certain way. The author would need to zip it so that when you open it you see folders like so:

Meshes

Textures

Sound

ESP

etc

Then they can be easily extracted to the correct directory.

No idea what it is written in, and it is a tagalong program, rather than just inserting the dll, like obse. Not sure which is easier....... I am NOT a programmer by any stretch of the imagination.

Most mods are indeed packaged that way. I know there were a few early ones that weren't.... but, I think even most of those have been repackaged. Some will have the full path though...... and other will want to be extracted to data files folder. Would it be possible to examine the file structure, and unzip to the appropriate place, depending on what is found?

[InsanitySorrow]

No idea what it is written in, and it is a tagalong program, rather than just inserting the dll, like obse. Not sure which is easier....... I am NOT a programmer by any stretch of the imagination.

Most mods are indeed packaged that way. I know there were a few early ones that weren't.... but, I think even most of those have been repackaged. Some will have the full path though...... and other will want to be extracted to data files folder. Would it be possible to examine the file structure, and unzip to the appropriate place, depending on what is found?

No harm in finding the source code and digging around eh

Honestly I am new to this archive business, I am taking in all you are mentioning and trying to find out the answers, best way I can work. I am sure it is possible to do such a thing. Just gotta find out how

[HeyYou]

No harm in finding the source code and digging around eh

Honestly I am new to this archive business, I am taking in all you are mentioning and trying to find out the answers, best way I can work. I am sure it is possible to do such a thing. Just gotta find out how

Source code is available from the sourceforge page linked above. I think....... it appears to be, but, I am unable to determine what version.... Appears to be written in C++......

[InsanitySorrow]

Source code is available from the sourceforge page linked above. I think....... it appears to be, but, I am unable to determine what version.... Appears to be written in C++......

I cannot seem to find a single zip file for the source code, loads of meaningless sepertate files

Its C++ which I would take time to learn if I knew i could contribute to this, also it uses a DLL file which is injected using a launcher, like OBSE

[peachykeen]

Most of Timeslip's apps (at least the GUI ones) are written in C#. I know MGE's gui is, and I think the others are too. MGE itself, though, is C++ and has no hooks (it completely wraps DirectX). So is MWSE.

I like the idea of a Morrowind kit like this, and I'll help if possible. I'd suggest C# for writing it, it's a pretty easy language for simple stuff like this.

If you need the source for MGE (which contains MWSE), it's in the subversion repository in the SF project. MWSE probably has it's own code in its svn. You won't be able to grab a zip of source for either, but SourceForge's system will generate a tarball of the current revision for you if you ask (link is at the bottom of any svn page).

[HeyYou]

I cannot seem to find a single zip file for the source code, loads of meaningless sepertate files

Its C++ which I would take time to learn if I knew i could contribute to this, also it uses a DLL file which is injected using a launcher, like OBSE

Is any of this meaningful to you? I wouldn't know source code if it jumped up and bit me. They have changed the layout of the sourceforge pages since my last visit, used to be the source was easy to find, and simply labeled "Source Code", but, that would be way to easy.

[PacificMorrowind]

not at all to shoot you down... but Wrye Mash has install (BAIN which Wrye ported back to Mash, his earlier project for MW) and LO (basically like Bash).

anyways good luck with whatever you do with this.

Pacific Morrowind

[InsanitySorrow]

Most of Timeslip's apps (at least the GUI ones) are written in C#. I know MGE's gui is, and I think the others are too. MGE itself, though, is C++ and has no hooks (it completely wraps DirectX). So is MWSE.

I like the idea of a Morrowind kit like this, and I'll help if possible. I'd suggest C# for writing it, it's a pretty easy language for simple stuff like this.

If you need the source for MGE (which contains MWSE), it's in the subversion repository in the SF project. MWSE probably has it's own code in its svn. You won't be able to grab a zip of source for either, but SourceForge's system will generate a tarball of the current revision for you if you ask (link is at the bottom of any svn page).

Yeah I looked at the source code for OBMM one day to see how its coded, I noticed it was C#, kinda nice , MWSE comes with a DLL and I am sure I read it hooks into the exe after launching, maybe I am wrong but either way its C++ which will take some learning.

I would love some help with it, ideas, code anything of the sort will be helpfull. I normall use Vb.Net, thats what my OB one is wrote in, but I am not afraid of C# anymore after workin a small amount with it, so C# might be a good choice.

Is any of this meaningful to you? I wouldn't know source code if it jumped up and bit me. They have changed the layout of the sourceforge pages since my last visit, used to be the source was easy to find, and simply labeled "Source Code", but, that would be way to easy.

Got it thanks, done what Peachy said and clicked the Tarball option

[InsanitySorrow]

not at all to shoot you down... but Wrye Mash has install (BAIN which Wrye ported back to Mash, his earlier project for MW) and LO (basically like Bash).

anyways good luck with whatever you do with this.

Pacific Morrowind

No worries, I thought about Mash eariler, but did not know it had BAIN functionality

[peachykeen]

Yeah I looked at the source code for OBMM one day to see how its coded, I noticed it was C#, kinda nice , MWSE comes with a DLL and I am sure I read it hooks into the exe after launching, maybe I am wrong but either way its C++ which will take some learning.

I would love some help with it, ideas, code anything of the sort will be helpfull. I normall use Vb.Net, thats what my OB one is wrote in, but I am not afraid of C# anymore after workin a small amount with it, so C# might be a good choice.

MWSE may hook when used alone (or may still from within MGE). I haven't worked on it. I do know, though, it's almost done with a complete core rewrite, so you'd be far better off not doing anything with it. You also shouldn't need to do much hooking for an installer.

I know Mash has an installer, but some kind of intelligent installer would be nice. Not a lot of MW mods are packed for installers, so something that can look and try to place files that aren't packed would work. Yacoby wrote libESM which would help parse the ESM/ESP files for installation that's guaranteed to match the plugin.

Plus, this would be nice for the people who don't use Mash. [raises hand]

[HeyYou]

MWSE may hook when used alone (or may still from within MGE). I haven't worked on it. I do know, though, it's almost done with a complete core rewrite, so you'd be far better off not doing anything with it. You also shouldn't need to do much hooking for an installer.

I know Mash has an installer, but some kind of intelligent installer would be nice. Not a lot of MW mods are packed for installers, so something that can look and try to place files that aren't packed would work. Yacoby wrote libESM which would help parse the ESM/ESP files for installation that's guaranteed to match the plugin.

Plus, this would be nice for the people who don't use Mash. [raises hand]

I have been waiting for two years for the core rewrite of MWSE. I kept after it, and always heard, "a few more weeks", or, "after exams", or, any of a number of other things. I stopped waiting, and haven't really been following it much of late. As it stands, it is an absolutely killer app, and does exactly what it says, and I wouldn't play without it. I even wrote some mods using it, only released one though.... Fliggerty was an integral part of all that, and without him, none of it would have happened. At the time, I think I held the record for the longest thread at Fligs. I think that one is gone now though, as he has upgraded forums at least once.

Is there some additional news on the MWSE front? I would LOVE to see further development there......

[InsanitySorrow]

Well I guess I should leave all MWSE alone then for the time being, if its still being worked on then there is no need for someone else to learn and work on it, better the developers do

[peachykeen]

An idea I had last night for your toolkit, InsanitySorrow, was a smart installer.

- libESM can read all ES* files: Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3

- There is no unified installer for Morrowind, and hardly for Obvs or FO3

- But, the ESM/ESPs that come with any mod tell which files have to go where

- And most mods are packaged with a Data Files or Data directory and subdirs

- By reading the ES* and directories, placing all the files properly wouldn't be too hard

- It wouldn't take any prior packing by authors and would work with all current mods, including some that don't work with current installers

Plus, reading the INI and making a tweak tool would be extremely simple. Just dump all the data to a two-column datagrid and set key on the left, value on the right. Let users edit it, and commit changes when they're done.

It would also double as a mod manager to some extent (letting you install, maybe uninstall mods, and tweak the INI (which contains the enabled mods list)).

Plus, it would work for all 3 games.

Thoughts?

[InsanitySorrow]

An idea I had last night for your toolkit, InsanitySorrow, was a smart installer.

- libESM can read all ES* files: Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3

- There is no unified installer for Morrowind, and hardly for Obvs or FO3

- But, the ESM/ESPs that come with any mod tell which files have to go where

- And most mods are packaged with a Data Files or Data directory and subdirs

- By reading the ES* and directories, placing all the files properly wouldn't be too hard

- It wouldn't take any prior packing by authors and would work with all current mods, including some that don't work with current installers

Plus, reading the INI and making a tweak tool would be extremely simple. Just dump all the data to a two-column datagrid and set key on the left, value on the right. Let users edit it, and commit changes when they're done.

It would also double as a mod manager to some extent (letting you install, maybe uninstall mods, and tweak the INI (which contains the enabled mods list)).

Plus, it would work for all 3 games.

Thoughts?

The INI tweaking is a simple thing to implement, infact the editing in my Oblivion app just opens the INI file in your default text editor, but the way you mentioned would be easy enough to implement.

I like the idea of using the ESM/ESPs to direct the install, was thinking about it last night, but I have no idea where to start on reading those files, so currently it just gives me a headache

[peachykeen]

I'll see if I can find the link for libESM. If you can work with STL iterators, you can use that to read them. It takes out all the messing with crazy stuff. However, I'm not sure how to connect between a C# GUI and C++ library, that would take some Googling. That or I'll rewrite something similar in C#.

As for the INI... YEah. It might be nicer for the user. And it's basically just read line, split at the =, show, repeat. To handle sections you could add a row, but no value, and keep the []. Then for writing, just write key (add an =) value, and if there isn't a value (value == "") then don't add the =, and section headers would be preserved.

[InsanitySorrow]

Just remember I am a VB.net coder, with small experience in C# and none in C++. STL Iterators are C++ which means are C# version of libESM would be preferred

The INI stuff is easy, I know how to do it and could do it rather quickly, though not started work on this yet

[peachykeen]

I don't know much about VB.NET, but I think C#.NET (Microsoft VC#) shouldn't be too hard to pick up.

I'll look into it later.

[InsanitySorrow]

VB.Net and C# are very similar, the syntax is different is most cases, but its easy enough to transfer between either of them. I have VB 2008 and VC# 2008 installed, so either can be used