Recruiting for a complete new game

[ThePriest909]

Greetings and please excuse my poor english.

Before a couple of months my team and I left TES-Modding and our "Gates to Aesgaard" project in order to work on a complete new game from scratch.

The game is based on a new horror fiction story Margaret Farrell and I are currently developing. The story takes place in the end of the year 1918. The gameplay could be described as single player "action adventure" but I'd say that it'll be something more than just that.

I can't post more info about it in public yet.

The game is gon'a be developed on a stand alone version of the "unreal Engine 3", the latest version of the famous game engine by Epic Games, recently released for indie developers. That means that it will NOT require any other game to play. It will be a complete new game as I've already mentioned. I've personaly spent the last two months in studing this new engine and the tools provided with it to ensure that this kind of game can become reality on this specific engine. Below you can see an image from our tests. Notice that this is just a screenshot from a test level made to help us understand the nature of the beast called "Unreal Engine 3". The actual game is gon'a look much better in more than one ways.

[screenshots Updated 3-4-10 / 19.14]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCflas0Cq-Y

The current base-team consists of:

ThePriest909 - Project Leader - Level Design, 3d Modeling, music & sound design.

AlexScorpion - Main 3d artist and animator.

Margaret Farrell - Story Writter.

Plus a couple of 3d party members helping us with many different stuff from time to time.

We have proven our abilities as mod-developers in TES and several other games and we believe that we are able to make and complete the next step, to create a complete new game from scratch. It may sound unrealistic but it is not if you have the right team and the required motivation.

We are looking for skilled people with imagination, ideas, passion for game developing and devotion to their work.

We currently need:

1. A skilled programmer: Able to understand the nature of the "unreal script" which is a new language developed by "Epic Games". It is a mix of C# and Java.

(Don't get scared by the word "new". The "unreal script" is an easy to understand programming language and there is plenty of info and tutorials available to help you out. If you're already familiar either with java or C++, unreal scripting will be an easy job for you).

2. A secondary 3d artist: Able to use 3ds Max or Maya. His work will be mostly referenced in static models and architecture.

We'll need a couple of more people soon but we're currently trying to keep our members limited untill we have something from the game to show.

There are 3 main requirements for everyone:

a)The abillity of working and collaborating with other people.

b)The abilitty of keeping the discussion civilled at any cost.

c)Devotion to his/her work. (Projects like this one requires months of hard work to be completed).

Notice:

We take our work very seriously. Quality and completion should be your motive.

For that reason your age might be a secondary factor for joining our team besides the rest requirements.

If you're intersted please feel free to contact me.

You can either send me a PM or use my personal e-mail - ThePriest909@gmail.com

Thank you very much for your time!

-John Emmanuel K. (ThePriest909).

Edited March 4, 2010 by ThePriest909

[greenwarden]

This looks like a very demanding but rewarding undertaking. I look forward to watching it come to fruition.

[ThePriest909]

Thank you very much GreenWarden!

If we get a good programmer soon enough, we might have the first samples from the actual game in a few weeks.

[PacificMorrowind]

I would join and help you; I fit pretty much all your criteria... except one: got too much RL stuff so would not have the time that that would require.

However that said I am certainly willing to do small things; I've been downloading the UDK stuff for the last 2 months (did I mention I have the worlds worst dialup... also downloading <painfully slowly> half a dozen other large things at the same time though), so as soon as I have that I'd probably be able to whip you up some scripts (I don't know really any C but I know enough Java to say hello world and enough Python to write up nice scripts for PyFFI/further develop Wrye Bash.

I'd also volunteer some modeling but I only use Blender (and have used gmax but I'm not geting Maya or Max ($$$$$) and gmax is pretty wimpy).

Pacific Morrowind

[ThePriest909]

I would join and help you; I fit pretty much all your criteria... except one: got too much RL stuff so would not have the time that that would require.

However that said I am certainly willing to do small things; I've been downloading the UDK stuff for the last 2 months (did I mention I have the worlds worst dialup... also downloading <painfully slowly> half a dozen other large things at the same time though), so as soon as I have that I'd probably be able to whip you up some scripts (I don't know really any C but I know enough Java to say hello world and enough Python to write up nice scripts for PyFFI/further develop Wrye Bash.

I'd also volunteer some modeling but I only use Blender (and have used gmax but I'm not geting Maya or Max ($$$$$) and gmax is pretty wimpy).

Pacific Morrowind

That sounds very intersting and RL comes first for all of us.

We're currently working on the main character. Once the model is done we're going to need to set a prototype of the actual gameplay and that's where we're going to need a programmer since we're thinking about adding some "special stuff". Your net connection won't be a problem for script tranfering. Blender is ok when it comes to static models.

Anyway. Programer's job will be to help us develop new classes and AI mostly. If you think you have time for it and that you won't abandon us in the middle of the project please send me an e-mail to infrom you about the stuff we'd like to do (plus some extra info...) once you feel/are ready.

Thank you.

[Glaedr]

oh goodie, another shooter/adventure game. cant wait for it!

[Rowan]

I like the look of that screenshot. But I have nothing to offer you but my support, so good luck Priest!

You remind me that I need to play your OB mods!

[ThePriest909]

Rowan and Glaedr, thank you both for the kind words.

[grond]

Thank you for posting, Priest. I've been searching for an engine that I can use right now, both for designing simple levels and learning to code. You've led me to UDK and I think it's perfect. Have you bought a license?

I have some talent in Blender, but I don't think I can give you the level of commitment you deserve.

I wish you the best of luck, and let us know how you're progressing with your project.

[ThePriest909]

Thank you for posting, Priest. I've been searching for an engine that I can use right now, both for designing simple levels and learning to code. You've led me to UDK and I think it's perfect. Have you bought a license?

I have some talent in Blender, but I don't think I can give you the level of commitment you deserve.

I wish you the best of luck, and let us know how you're progressing with your project.

Thank you!

I'm glad I helped even in this way :0)

Licenses are not yet available but i will once we get the game working and of course if it proves worthy of the "next step".

If you wish you could send me a sample of your work in case you're looking for a team and of course if you're intersted in horror themes in games.

[grond]

I'm still in the middle of a weird spell, where I'm trying to make decisions...call it a sort of growing pain. But if you want to see the work I've done with Blender, please check out this TESA thread. It's in this very forum...

When I get my mind right, I might be in touch.

[peachykeen]

Your screenshot looks nice! (although the shader on the wall could use some work, looks wet )

One thing I can think of with using the Unreal Engine: it costs. A whole bunch. Commercial licenses can easily clear $300,000 USD, and I don't know how much indie licenses are. However, if you can afford it, it's not a bad engine to develop on. It has a lot of features and can be extended/customized nicely, and the shader editor/material system is pretty extensive (you can make things look good easy ).

How are you planning on allowing developers to help with modeling or scripting? Unless you can get everyone a copy of the dev kit, that might be a problem.

Good luck on your project! I'll be watching and check out any demos.

[ThePriest909]

Your screenshot looks nice! (although the shader on the wall could use some work, looks wet )

One thing I can think of with using the Unreal Engine: it costs. A whole bunch. Commercial licenses can easily clear $300,000 USD, and I don't know how much indie licenses are. However, if you can afford it, it's not a bad engine to develop on. It has a lot of features and can be extended/customized nicely, and the shader editor/material system is pretty extensive (you can make things look good easy ).

How are you planning on allowing developers to help with modeling or scripting? Unless you can get everyone a copy of the dev kit, that might be a problem.

Good luck on your project! I'll be watching and check out any demos.

The Unreal Tech has been recendly released for Indie developers in the form of "UDK". It's been out for a few months.

Indie licenses start at 99USD plus 25% fee of your earnings (However your access to the core-code is limited) and full licenses start from 2,500 USD per year. Considering that Unreal Tech can do just about anything, the amount of money asked for a full license can only be considered as a gift from Hell itself. You can't find a better offer out there at the moment.

In any case though we'll start with the non-commercial version (UDK) and if the resaults in game are promissing... well... then we can always consider of "swimming a bit deeper".

Edit:

About that shader... Those statics are supposed to be placed in a "foggy/wet" area. That's justa test enviroment. So if they look a bit wet, that's a good thing :0)

[peachykeen]

The Unreal Tech has been recendly released for Indie developers in the form of "UDK". It's been out for a few months.

Indie licenses start at 99USD plus 25% fee of your earnings (However your access to the core-code is limited) and full licenses start from 2,500 USD per year. Considering that Unreal Tech can do just about anything, the amount of money asked for a full license can only be considered as a gift from Hell itself. You can't find a better offer out there at the moment.

In any case though we'll start with the non-commercial version (UDK) and if the resaults are promissing... well... then we can always consider of "swimming a bit deeper".

Interesting. I'll have to check that out.

Last I saw the price, it was close to half a million dollars, which put me off looking deeper. I'm wondering what they had to strip out to be licensing it for $99 now.

Edit:

About that shader... Those statics are supposed to be placed in a "foggy/wet" area. That's justa test enviroment. So if they look a bit wet, that's a good thing :0)

Well in that case, excellent material!

Tell your shader authors to be very, very careful though: they can't use that material in a dry area. Most developers (Bethesda is especially bad at this) severely over-use specular, which makes everything look wet. Kill specular on your normal/parallax maps, and it'll look way better.

[ThePriest909]

Interesting. I'll have to check that out.

Last I saw the price, it was close to half a million dollars, which put me off looking deeper. I'm wondering what they had to strip out to be licensing it for $99 now.

UDK is the complete Unreal Engine 3 as it is used by the big companies out there. The only difference is that you don't have access to the core-code... Not that you need the access though since the unreal script can be manipulated by using simple mutattors.

So what's the deal? Money... Indie developers can be the best advertisement. We already experianced that with several games including TES-IV. Epic just moved a step forward by giving you a game engine.

To make the engine your proprty and have the rights to remove their logo like Bioware did for Mass Effect 2 for example... then yes... That's gon'a cost you a million dollars. But with their logo up... They become more popular and you have one of the best game engines available in the market. Not to mention that many of us bought games that use UE3 only to see what this babe can do. And considering the 25% fee for a 99USD license or the 2500USD per year? Not bad. More fame for Unreal Tech more money to Epic games.

Well in that case, excellent material!

Tell your shader authors to be very, very careful though: they can't use that material in a dry area. Most developers (Bethesda is especially bad at this) severely over-use specular, which makes everything look wet. Kill specular on your normal/parallax maps, and it'll look way better.

Well the guys in Epic games do even worst use of the specular channel than Beth did lol

Anyway, the shaders can be created on the fly through the Material editor in UDK so, I do the most of level design stuff myself plus a large part of the architecture and enviromental design at least atm. Besides, it might take more time but, the less people you have and the more skilled those few are, the less is the chance of a failure because some of them may not share the same passion for a project as some others do. I had to learn that the hard way in my real job. I'd prefer to see a good and short game rather than a streched boring one.

The screenshot is actually a very poor example of what can be done in UE3 since we're still working on basic stuff like gameplay. But once I get the first level done and running I'll update the post.

Feedback is always wellcome since when someone works on a specific theme for days he tents to be unable to see the difference between the forest and the trees :0)

And again, please excuse my english, I'm not a native english speaker.

[peachykeen]

UDK is the complete Unreal Engine 3 as it is used by the big companies out there. The only difference is that you don't have access to the core-code... Not that you need the access though since the unreal script can be manipulated by using simple mutattors.

If you try to change it too far from the original engine design, though (say if you made an RTS or RPG on the team shooter engine), you'd want that source access. Unless you have to change some significant mechanics, you should be good. Note though, using Unreal script will (most likely) be a little slower than if you had changed the source, so you might have to be careful there. It has to go through another layer of interpretation, which can't help speed.

So what's the deal? Money... Indie developers can be the best advertisement. We already experianced that with several games including TES-IV. Epic just moved a step forward by giving you a game engine.

To make the engine your proprty and have the rights to remove their logo like Bioware did for Mass Effect 2 for example... then yes... That's gon'a cost you a million dollars. But with their logo up... They become more popular and you have one of the best game engines available in the market. Not to mention that many of us bought games that use UE3 only to see what this babe can do. And considering the 25% fee for a 99USD license or the 2500USD per year? Not bad. More fame for Unreal Tech more money to Epic games.

Heh, cause Epic needs more money. I wouldn't consider UE3 as one of the best engines out there, actually. It's missing a few features and a little slower than others (notably Aurora 3 (The Witcher) and the current generation of Gamebryo (not used for anything yet, I don't think) ), but does scale quite nicely (if you need an engine that scales, only Source and Unreal can provide that). I'd be surprised if they really didn't strip anything out of the indie version but the code, but it is possible.

Well the guys in Epic games do even worst use of the specular channel than Beth did lol

Anyway, the shaders can be created on the fly through the Material editor in UDK so, I do the most of level design stuff myself plus a large part of the architecture and enviromental design at least atm. Besides, it might take more time but, the less people you have and the more skilled those few are, the less is the chance of a failure because some of them may not share the same passion for a project as some others do. I had to learn that the hard way in my real job. I'd prefer to see a good and short game rather than a streched boring one.

The screenshot is actually a very poor example of what can be done in UE3 since we're still working on basic stuff like gameplay. But once I get the first level done and running I'll update the post.

The materials system is nice (I've played with it before), though there's a point where it starts to limit you a little. I'm not sure which language it uses for shaders, but if you have someone skilled in that, there really isn't much you can't do (fur, velvet, mirrors, crystal, chrome, almost anything is possible with a shader). Be careful with the special effects, though. A lot of people still have low-end systems that just can't handle too much, so make sure you have fallback paths and materials for all your high-end ones.

As for team: there's a fine balance between too many people and too few. Too few and each has too much work and will eventually fall under the strain. Too many and each doesn't care, or doesn't have enough to do, and will get lost and drift away. You have to judge it just right, and usually it takes constant attention and rebalancing to make sure everyone is interested and involved.

[ThePriest909]

If you try to change it too far from the original engine design, though (say if you made an RTS or RPG on the team shooter engine), you'd want that source access. Unless you have to change some significant mechanics, you should be good. Note though, using Unreal script will (most likely) be a little slower than if you had changed the source, so you might have to be careful there. It has to go through another layer of interpretation, which can't help speed.

There are already prototypes made for RTS and RPGs without the source code. That's what I meant that you don't really need it. The source code would be necessary only if you 'd possibly like to develop your own tools or modify the way the engine already works. In our case it's even easier since I'll probably go the first person way of gameplay since it fits better with what I have in mind to do. I'd like to make the experience more "personal" rather than showing a nice looking npc doing all the job for you.

Heh, cause Epic needs more money. I wouldn't consider UE3 as one of the best engines out there, actually. It's missing a few features and a little slower than others (notably Aurora 3 (The Witcher) and the current generation of Gamebryo (not used for anything yet, I don't think) ), but does scale quite nicely (if you need an engine that scales, only Source and Unreal can provide that). I'd be surprised if they really didn't strip anything out of the indie version but the code, but it is possible.

UDK is actually an improved and further developed UE3 editor. So they gave us more than they already had. Consider it a UE3.5 cause they're currently up to make UE4.

Now as far as this concerns Aurora or Gamebryo. Please allow me to disagree. I would agree if you had mention the latest Source or CryEngine2 but Gamebryo!!!??? Even the latest of their updates (I watched the demonstrations of the current version and generally I've been watching its development because I've been doing level design for mods on games based on it for quite a few years) is at least 1 or 2 years back IMO. As far as it concers Aurora, definately not my kind of engine.

It's up to the taste of each developer I guess and the kind of games they have in mind to make. Personally, although hard to use, my tastes go with the Source Engine.

The materials system is nice (I've played with it before), though there's a point where it starts to limit you a little. I'm not sure which language it uses for shaders, but if you have someone skilled in that, there really isn't much you can't do (fur, velvet, mirrors, crystal, chrome, almost anything is possible with a shader). Be careful with the special effects, though. A lot of people still have low-end systems that just can't handle too much, so make sure you have fallback paths and materials for all your high-end ones.

As for team: there's a fine balance between too many people and too few. Too few and each has too much work and will eventually fall under the strain. Too many and each doesn't care, or doesn't have enough to do, and will get lost and drift away. You have to judge it just right, and usually it takes constant attention and rebalancing to make sure everyone is interested and involved.

The current material system allows the user to make any shader on the fly. Meaning, there's no need for coding as long you don't need something really really unique. All the above shaders you mention can be done without the need of additional programming. What more could I possibly need!? An engine is not making a good game so... ;0)

The latest version of unreal script has also shown great improvements as far as that concerns the speed of calculation and it's entirely up to the programmer to keep it that way.

Anyway,

I sound like an UE3 advertisement lol so, for more info on UDK refer to this page: http://udk.com/ You'll find all the info about the latest version plus demonstrations and like I've already said if we could afford it I would go with the Source Engine but since it's too expensive for us atm UE3 will do the job. I couldn't possibly ask for anything better atm.

It's still too early for getting a full team in any case so.... Time will tell. :0)

[ThePriest909]

Just a short video I made in order to explain the use of matinee (cinematics-syetem) to our director.

The music is composed and produced by me.

Everything you see is a big test, nothing more, even the level itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCflas0Cq-Y

[grond]

Just outstanding. Beautiful. Nice work, even for a test.

[ThePriest909]

Thanks Grond!

Hopefully if real life won't "eat" any extra time, the first in game samples will most probably be available in a month or so.

[InsanitySorrow]

It's looking very nice, well done

[peachykeen]

Looks pretty good! I'd like to see a full trailer or sample.

Couple minor things I noticed, though.

Your grass is cutting off when it meets the ground (yes, I know that's how it works). A trick to make it less obvious is decrease the alpha near the bottom (so it fades out quickly and subtly when as it meets the ground). Going from 100%-50% in the bottom 1/4 or 1/8 of the texture doesn't ruin the look of the grass, but can help a lot with that sharp line you usually get at the bottom. I've seen a grass mesh with and without that transparency, and it definitely looks a lot better with (and isn't hard to do).

Your rock shader (from one of the fly-bys) is looking a lot like stucko (sp? the thick, spikey stuff they cover some ceilings with). Especially in ruins like that, it should be a lot smoother.

Finally, the depth of field is too obvious and is being funny with the edges of things there. You might want to make it softer or spread it further (have it affect near objects slightly and far objects a little less). It reminds me of the DoF in Legendary, which was absolutely terrible (although that game, using the same engine, had some excellent shaders for other areas, especially the flowing water over stones outside the castle).

[ThePriest909]

Looks pretty good! I'd like to see a full trailer or sample.

Couple minor things I noticed, though.

Your grass is cutting off when it meets the ground (yes, I know that's how it works). A trick to make it less obvious is decrease the alpha near the bottom (so it fades out quickly and subtly when as it meets the ground). Going from 100%-50% in the bottom 1/4 or 1/8 of the texture doesn't ruin the look of the grass, but can help a lot with that sharp line you usually get at the bottom. I've seen a grass mesh with and without that transparency, and it definitely looks a lot better with (and isn't hard to do).

Your rock shader (from one of the fly-bys) is looking a lot like stucko (sp? the thick, spikey stuff they cover some ceilings with). Especially in ruins like that, it should be a lot smoother.

Finally, the depth of field is too obvious and is being funny with the edges of things there. You might want to make it softer or spread it further (have it affect near objects slightly and far objects a little less). It reminds me of the DoF in Legendary, which was absolutely terrible (although that game, using the same engine, had some excellent shaders for other areas, especially the flowing water over stones outside the castle).

Thanks for the tips! Very usefull. The grass alpha thing works perfect :0)

I just added a secondary modifier that tweaks the height like you suggested.

Ignore the DoF effect... I won't use it in game since I prefer more natural looking stuff. It's only a director camera effect. Meaning, once you're off the cinematics mode it goes away. Most probably though I'll turn it off in cinematics as well and use lens flare instead to simulate the camera feeling. I think that would fit better. It's still up to the game diector though. If he manage to use it better than I did I might keep it.

About the rocks. The game takes place in 1918... The first thing I said to the team was... Don't think about the architecture the way most games do. Meaning, American - English style. That's because that kind of architecture has been used already too much in games and people got used to it. I want to bring some new stuff in this game. So that's what it is. Stucco. (well, a kind of.... the shader still looks crappy but I'll get them done in time). The architecture is based on the greek model of that era. Untill the late 30s people outside the big cities were still using rock (cause it was an easy material to find instead of wood or blocks) and some kind of stucco they use to make from a natural material. (I can't recall its name in english right now). Although the current ruins are supposed to be a couple of centuries older than the era the game takes place, the way the built is pretty much the same.

As an example take a look at the photo below. This kind of architecture was used untill late 40s in the countryside. This is photo is from a traditional village a few km away from my hometown in the current time. Today those villages are deserted. The reason for that "fallback" in architecture were the 2 world wars and the military goverment that took place a few years later in Greece. People had no money back then to build proper houses and so they still used materials straight from the nature. That counts for countryside only though. Considering that my father grew up in a house similar to the one in the photo when I'm the owner a 2-flored maisonette today and all the comforts a house could have... well I think you can realise the way people lived back then. And that's only 50 years ago... The way of living had nothing to do with the rest wealthy european countries.

And back to the topic... Most probably I'll replace those shaders in the actual game and use vertex paint technics to get that mix of stucco and limed-stone look you can see in the photo. Note that the small building in the video with those ancient looking columns won't be used in the same area. Like I said this is just a "testing statics" level I made.

Hopefully I'll be able to post a few shots of the real intro level next week. I still need to make a few more assets before start working on it.

And again thanks for the tips. That grass thing was really bugging me for days

Edited February 23, 2010 by ThePriest909

[peachykeen]

Thanks for the tips! Very usefull. The grass alpha thing works perfect :0)

I just added a secondary modifier that tweaks the height like you suggested.

I'd like to see how it turned out. Glad it helped.

Ignore the DoF effect... I won't use it in game since I prefer more natural looking stuff. It's only a director camera effect. Meaning, once you're off the cinematics mode it goes away. Most probably though I'll turn it off in cinematics as well and use lens flare instead to simulate the camera feeling. I think that would fit better. It's still up to the game diector though. If he manage to use it better than I did I might keep it.

DoF is one of those effects you have to be very, very careful with. If used very subtly and given a wide focal range, it generally helps. If you over-do it, it can ruin a scene. Also, combined with bloom or lens flare, it can be a very useful effect. A night scene looks much better if you have depth of field before a good bloom shader. The combination pulls lights out and definitely adds realism.

About the rocks. The game takes place in 1918... -snip-

And back to the topic... Most probably I'll replace those shaders in the actual game and use vertex paint technics to get that mix of stucco and limed-stone look you can see in the photo. Note that the small building in the video with those ancient looking columns won't be used in the same area. Like I said this is just a "testing statics" level I made.

Well, if I guessed it correctly, obviously you did a good job of what it was supposed to be. I'm used to the traditional smooth stone for castles and old buildings (all the old places around here (east coast US) have, usually, smooth-worn granite or marble for nicer buildings), so I didn't expect a stucco. It definitely looks like it, though (I've never seen dark stucco like that before).

[ThePriest909]

I'd like to see how it turned out. Glad it helped.

Hmm.. I just added the model with the new shader in game today... Got a little issue to solve. There are two kinds of masked shaders in udk. The first one just uses a threshold point that just cuts off all the black areas of a mask.Like a 90 deg frequency filter. The second one is caled soft mask and it can be used for that fading out effect you mention. So in order to achive that trick for the grass I had to use the soft mask option. That comes with a ittle problem though. It seems that the shadows in this case are casted by polygons and not the masked texture lol. Deactivating the shadows for the grass solves the issue but it doesn't look realistic. :0\

Anyway, I'm sure there's a way around this somehow.

I've never seen dark stucco like that before.

That kind of stucco was made from a natural material but I really can't recall its name. When it gets wet ion its natural form, its color becomes very deep purple. So people used to mix that thing with some other kind of natural materials and in the end it looked like some kind of dark-stucco that they used for merging together the "un-perfect" walls that were created by natural uncut stones. With a deferent mix of materials they could turn it into some kind of concrete they used for floors and roofs. I spent a few days asking villagers about the ways they used to built back then. Some really old people still live in those ruined villages. Quite impressive places. Like a crack in time.