Load Order Issue - How to tell if a mod changes X?

[GothGirlDanielle]

Eggh ... I'm pulling my hair out here - and this is probably a really easy thing to do, I've just never done it before. Here's what I need to know:

1. You change the texture/mesh whatever on an existing in-game item (no, no, I didn't do it, another mod did). In this case, soul gem retexture.

2. I install the mod, complete with mesh/texture resources and .esp.

3. I sort the load order with BOSS. The mod sorts, so I can assume the load order is correct.

4. I enter the game, and no change.

Logically then, some other mod, later in load order, is reverting the change back to the original soul gems. But, sigh, I'm running over 200+ esps! I've spent an hour trying to diagnose the problem and I can't figure out what it's called? Resource duplication? Is it mod confict? Egggh.

I'm betting there's a way to check and see if a later mod changes the same resource. But, newbie as I am, I don't know what that way is. Can someone help?

Sorry if this is a stupid question.

~ Dani ~

[WillieSea]

You need to use Archive Invalidation if you want to replace vanilla textures. Otherwise the textures are pulled from the BSA and NOT your textures folders.

[EDIT] http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10724

[GothGirlDanielle]

You need to use Archive Invalidation if you want to replace vanilla textures. Otherwise the textures are pulled from the BSA and NOT your textures folders.

[EDIT] http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10724

I've already enable archive invalidation, but I'll checked again to make sure.

...

Nope, not the problem. If I move the .esp to the bottom of my load order, the meshes/textures work.

~ Dani ~

Edited December 3, 2010 by GothGirlDanielle

[StarX]

Well, if the filepath of the meshes is altered in the CS than any mod (EDIT: that change the soul gems of course) loading after that will undo these edits. Since it comes with an esp this seems to be the case. So it isn't a simple replacer which only replaces the excisting meshes and/or textures.

[WillieSea]

Perhaps its because I am a little OCD, but I open ANY mod I plan on using and verify 'what' the changes they are making are. So I know all the changes in all the mods I use are. So many mods change things that I dont agree with, perhaps that is why I have so few mods installed.

So, I know of no tool that will tell me, but perhaps wyre bash or something has a compatibility check feature.

[Hanaisse]

Use either Refscope or FormIDFinder to get the editor ID of the soulgem.

Use TES4Edit to search all your mods for that ID. (Yes, this will take a while) You'll get results of any and all mods that touch soulgems.

[WillieSea]

You can get the form Id by looking in the CS. Just expand the second column to see the form ID.

[GothGirlDanielle]

Well, if the filepath of the meshes is altered in the CS than any mod loading after that will undo these edits. Since it comes with an esp this seems to be the case. So it isn't a simple replacer which only replaces the excisting meshes and/or textures.

Okay, that makes sense ... kind of. If mod A adds new textures and meshes for soul gems, and uses an .esp to direct the game to load those resources, then the only way it would revert back is if another mod specifically changed the path back, right?

~ Dani ~

Edit:

@ Willie: That's good advice and I should have followed it. Luckily, I make backups of any mod I install, so I can go to the backup and figure out what I need to delete to restore the game to normal.

@ Hanaisse: I just downloaded FormidFinder (great tool!) which should tell me the path of the last .esp to "touch" soulgems. I already have TES4edit, I'll just need to figure out how to find those results ... thank you so much for the tip.

~ D ~

Edited December 3, 2010 by GothGirlDanielle

[WillieSea]

Yes. Or it could point them somewhere else entirely which if it loads after the other mod, will overwrite the changes and implement its own.

Rule of thumb.

The last ESP to load wins. And the very last 'esp' that ever loads is your save game. (not the problem in this case since save games do not store texture paths to objects.)

[StarX]

Yup, that's right. By using TES4Edit you can determine which mods change the soulgems. That way you also have the right info to make a patch for yourself to combine the various changes if you want. So you combine mod A (which changes the filepaths) with mod B (which changes other stats like value for example).

[GothGirlDanielle]

Use either Refscope or FormIDFinder to get the editor ID of the soulgem.

Use TES4Edit to search all your mods for that ID. (Yes, this will take a while) You'll get results of any and all mods that touch soulgems.

You are my hero! That worked perfectly! And the cuplit is:

OOO - wouldn't you know! (Sorry ... feeling poetic ...)

Yup, that's right. By using TES4Edit you can determine which mods change the soulgems. That way you also have the right info to make a patch for yourself to combine the various changes if you want. So you combine mod A (which changes the filepaths) with mod B (which changes other stats like value for example).

By patch, do you mean make a dependent .esp that includes the information and resources from both? So in this case, I have:

GW71_Soulgems.esp (which loads before)

Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp

Since OOO changes it, I would need to make a dependent merged patch. Any suggestions on how to do that?

Edit: What if both mods change the file paths from the original Bethesda file path? So GW71 changes it first, then OOO changes it again? Can I make the GW71_Soulgems.esp a dependent .esp (dependent on the OOO .esp) so that Wyre Bash ghosts it and it doesn't count towards the load order? I've done this with scripts before (for example, a delayer for the Ruined-Tales Tale quest) where my delayer was dependent upon the original mod and loads as a patch?

Are we talking about the same thing?

\

~ Dani ~

Edited December 3, 2010 by GothGirlDanielle

[Hanaisse]

Why not just keep the soulgems mod loading at the bottom of your load order?

[GothGirlDanielle]

Why not just keep the soulgems mod loading at the bottom of your load order?

No reason - except that when StarX mentioned patch, I saw a way to get rid of an .esp (since I'm pushin 225 ...)

~ Dani ~

Edited December 3, 2010 by GothGirlDanielle

[Hanaisse]

Oh sorry Dani! I didn't see your edit.

TES4Gecko is probably your answer.

[GothGirlDanielle]

Oh sorry Dani! I didn't see your edit.

TES4Gecko is probably your answer.

DUH!!! Just merge them ... of course! Thanks, Hanaisse ...

~ Dani ~

[Arthmoor]

It sounds like all this ESP does for soul gems is change the model paths? If that's the case you should be able to just use Bash and tag it with Graphics, with it loading after OOO. Then have Bash import graphics from it, without activating the mod. You get the visual updates while keeping whatever else OOO wants to do to them and all without eating another slot or having to mess around with a Gecko merge.

[GothGirlDanielle]

It sounds like all this ESP does for soul gems is change the model paths? If that's the case you should be able to just use Bash and tag it with Graphics, with it loading after OOO. Then have Bash import graphics from it, without activating the mod. You get the visual updates while keeping whatever else OOO wants to do to them and all without eating another slot or having to mess around with a Gecko merge.

Yes, it changes model paths from the all existing Soul Gem FormIds (I must be the only one that like spider soul gems ... ). And that's all it does. OOO, IIR, does change the model names.

And so I did think of this and try it - what I did was set the load at the bottom of my load order, (not directly after OOO), then tagged it with a graphics tag, but the name did not change to green on the Bash file list and when I click on it, I get the "dot" instead of the "cross". When I load the game, the changes are gone.

So I'm not sure why this isn't working. You're absolutely correct; this would be the easiest, least intusive solution.

~ Dani ~