Planning a super mod

[JulianSull]

Right now I'm in the planning stages of creating a very large quest mod which takes place in a completely different realm as in there are five major cities in the game, and plenty of side quests (kinda like Windfall). Are there any details besides what is below that I am neglecting to plan out?

1) World space design (the actual continent)

2) City design (All five cities)

3) Nature Design (Deserts, mountains, locations of creatures and bosses)

4) Creature Design

5) Main Quest Design

6) New Armor and Weapon Designs

Is there anything else I should add or think about adding? I don't want to skimp or rush this. Each city I'm planning to have its own special area that defines it aka Selva, the jungle city, will have an archery challenge area where the player has to shoot arrows at targets in order to earn bigger prizes. Kryta, the big industrial city will have a giant Arena where the player has to try to survive as many rounds in a row as possible.

For the creatures, I'm trying to make them as original as possible so how do these designs sounds? This is a 2003 Word document with the enemies listed and many of them planned out:

http://www.mediafire.com/?yy1gaqmyzjy

As for weapons and armor, I have a few ideas of what to make, but what should I attempt to make?

And yes, I know this is going to take a very long time. I don't care. I love it. I'll finish it.

[_echo]

Word of advice. Start small. We all have had our share of grand ideas for mods. We seem like we are the most dedicated person on the planet to getting the project done. However, the simple fact is, no you are not.

Now, don't take this the wrong way. If you truly have the dedication to spend years (yes, years) on this idea, then go right ahead, more power to you, I would love to see it come to life. But also, understand that we were there at one point, we see it every day almost, and truth be told, other projects of similar scale, with whole teams of people, only ~2 or 3 have ever been released out of the thousands that have ever been mentioned, and the handful of ones that ever god off the ground but still failed.

So I will say again, start small. Get some experience under your belt. Learn that the CS is not your friend. Then, decide if you still want to tackle such a large project.

Im sure DarkRider can tell you all about it.

[ZuTheSkunk]

I don't know if it would be useful for you or not, but I learned some time ago about the best way to create some big projects, or at least something not that big, but still looking finished.

Find some idea that doesn't require to make something really big to be finally considered finished. Find an idea that allows you to stop at some moment if you feel tired, and still keep your project looking more or less finished. Such project should be created from lesser, smaller projects (like additional location, building, quest, set of items, etc.), with each one expanding your general project, but not essential for him. If all of already created small projects are done, the major project - according to your idea - is not yet big enough, but you feel tired: you can stop anyway, and release it.

For example, you may create a quest with beginning and ending, and some transition points between them. You're creating beginning and ending, the only absolutely necessary parts of your mod, and then you start to create those transition points. You have created some and you feel that it's not enough? Add more! You feel tired and don't want to mess with this mod anymore? Okay then, stop with all what you have created so far and release it! Simple as that. A good example of such quest might be a dungeon or labyrinth with various puzzles to solve before reaching the end.

I hope I have helped.

[JulianSull]

I understand where you are coming from, but this isn't my first game I've worked on. I have some experience with the CS and don't plan to start until everything is planned out and I know everything works. I have made some smaller mods, although unreleased. So far I've made my own house mod along with some quest mods, however due to lack of planning I decided to scrap some of them. This one however I'm working on the script of it (page 59) and don't want to start until it is done, revised, checked by others and revised again. I plan on finishing this. Definitely not some time soon and definitely not alone (Alone for now however). It's just like any major project. If you plan it out, it will run smoothly. If you don't, it will be hellish. I also have some experience with some other editors including the Unreal Editor and RPG Maker VX, XP and 2003. Neither is as buggy as the CS, but I definitely got some experience with design, coding, storytelling, flow and planning from all of those makers. I know I'll have to learn a lot, but I love doing it and I know it's going to be a ...Was going to say a swear but I'm not sure if I'm aloud to but a ____ load of work but I'm enjoying it while I'm doing it and the reward of completing something small and stupid towards the bigger picture is enough for me to keep going.

Find some idea that doesn't require to make something really big to be finally considered finished. Find an idea that allows you to stop at some moment if you feel tired, and still keep your project looking more or less finished. Such project should be created from lesser, smaller projects (like additional location, building, quest, set of items, etc.), with each one expanding your general project, but not essential for him. If all of already created small projects are done, the major project - according to your idea - is not yet big enough, but you feel tired: you can stop anyway, and release it.

I'm too much of a perfectionist. I can't release something unless it is perfect. Unless it has everything that I want to be in it, in it. Otherwise it feels like I cheated myself and whoever downloads my mod. I'm inspired by the people who designed this game in the first place and also partially by Valve. Oblivion was in production for about four years straight, constantly being tested to make sure it was great. Valve delays release dates to make sure their games are perfect and with amazingly designed games like Portal and the Half Life series, they definitely have shown it is worth it. I don't want to make a quicky to get my name out there. If I'm going to release it, I'm going to release it because I can't find anything else wrong with it.

(I don't know if that sounded mean or not but I definitely wasn't trying to be just in case )

Edited June 19, 2010 by DarkRider

[Hanaisse]

My advise, from a simple user of mods who's always looking for good quests to run.

1. Keep it simple.

Not every mod needs to have fifty level 200 bosses to be good.

2. Keep it interesting.

Whether it's in beautiful landscape, uniquely laid out dungeons/caves, pretty towns/villages, lots of lore friendly dialogue, intriguing quests; If the mod isn't going to keep me motivated to continue then it's a no win. New factions are always good. Also, "dark" mods that have all the action in a dank dungeon with fire spewing from every corner is not interesting to everyone. Don't limit your audience this way.

3. Keep the new 'stuff' to a minimum.

Try to keep the mod small in size yet big on flavour. Retexturing vanilla objects is a great way to add newness and spice rather than adding 50 new meshes of armor and weapons that I may not use again to bloat my game.

4. Take your time.

There's no hurry. Double check, triple check then check again for spelling and grammar. Does it make sense? Is it lore friendly? (Nothing drives me more crazy than spelling errors or un-lore like dialogue). Are the quest journal updates giving enough information? Too much information? Then test, test, test and test again.

5. Back to your original question of what to plan out. Some food for thought;

- Will/can you use OBSE to enhance your scripts?

- Decide early if you want it voiced or not. Weigh the pros and cons. (It can be a real headache to pull together on large mods)

- Keep in mind (but don't design for it) about compatibility with the more popular mods such as OOO or MMM. (I'm not sure if they will actually impact new world spaces)

- Keep in mind that people of different levels will play your mod. Is it easy enough for level 5's yet challenging enough for level 35's? Levelled lists are your friend.

- Sorry I haven't looked at your creature design document but again - keep it simple.

Btw, I loved Windfall, so if this is going to follow that vein then I can't wait to see it. Good luck!

[JulianSull]

My advise, from a simple user of mods who's always looking for good quests to run.

1. Keep it simple.

Not every mod needs to have fifty level 200 bosses to be good.

2. Keep it interesting.

Whether it's in beautiful landscape, uniquely laid out dungeons/caves, pretty towns/villages, lots of lore friendly dialogue, intriguing quests; If the mod isn't going to keep me motivated to continue then it's a no win. New factions are always good. Also, "dark" mods that have all the action in a dank dungeon with fire spewing from every corner is not interesting to everyone. Don't limit your audience this way.

3. Keep the new 'stuff' to a minimum.

Try to keep the mod small in size yet big on flavour. Retexturing vanilla objects is a great way to add newness and spice rather than adding 50 new meshes of armor and weapons that I may not use again to bloat my game.

4. Take your time.

There's no hurry. Double check, triple check then check again for spelling and grammar. Does it make sense? Is it lore friendly? (Nothing drives me more crazy than spelling errors or un-lore like dialogue). Are the quest journal updates giving enough information? Too much information? Then test, test, test and test again.

5. Back to your original question of what to plan out. Some food for thought;

- Will/can you use OBSE to enhance your scripts?

- Decide early if you want it voiced or not. Weigh the pros and cons. (It can be a real headache to pull together on large mods)

- Keep in mind (but don't design for it) about compatibility with the more popular mods such as OOO or MMM. (I'm not sure if they will actually impact new world spaces)

- Keep in mind that people of different levels will play your mod. Is it easy enough for level 5's yet challenging enough for level 35's? Levelled lists are your friend.

- Sorry I haven't looked at your creature design document but again - keep it simple.

Btw, I loved Windfall, so if this is going to follow that vein then I can't wait to see it. Good luck!

I definitely want to have voice acting in my mod. Nothing kills a mod more for me than a lack of voice acting. I know there is a Voice Acting community here so I hope I can get some major help there.

As for bosses, I think I am planning to have about 12 bosses in total for the main quest, each extremely distinct from the last.

As for interesting, that is my number one goal. I realize there are a lot of different types of players out there and I need to have something in my mod for everyone (Story lovers, Big battle lovers, strategists etc).

As for new stuff, I couldn't agree more. I don't even think I'll have new stuff for anything besides maybe one things per city and the main characters to make them distinct.

I think OBSE will be 100% necessary if I am to do some of the things I have planned in my head.

Also for the level thing, players will need to be a minimum of level 20 to play to ensure that they will stand a chance.

Also for extremely dark type of things, I am actually planning on going nearly in the opposite direction. I hate mods like that. I really do. I might have a couple of dungeons thrown in there that are like that, but for the most part, you will be able to see your enemies and instead of your lantern being tested, your skills and preparation will be tested.

[DarkRider]

This sound interesting, thought I'd toss in my two cents since I'm 3 years at the helm of a 40+ gameplay hour expansion project myself.

I definitely want to have voice acting in my mod. Nothing kills a mod more for me than a lack of voice acting. I know there is a Voice Acting community here so I hope I can get some major help there.

You say this now, but when the time comes you may find yourself compromising. Voice acting for such a large project is rough, it can take anywhere from 3-9 months just to record, mix, and add voiced dialogue. When you've been in the trench for two years, spending another 9 months on voice acting may not seem so important then. Trust me, this is something you want to put way on the back burner and don't fuss about it until the mod is at least in BETA. In testing your testers will catch typos or say something's don't make sense and you'll find yourself rewriting, so you don't want to pass out scripts until your dialogue is finalized.

As for bosses, I think I am planning to have about 12 bosses in total for the main quest, each extremely distinct from the last.

This seems excessive to be honest. Too many bosses can become redundant to players. The goal of your project is to entertain your players, not bore them with repetitive boss battles. Use bosses where the story deems one appropriate, don't just toss in loads of battling for the sake of having a lot of battles.

As for interesting, that is my number one goal. I realize there are a lot of different types of players out there and I need to have something in my mod for everyone (Story lovers, Big battle lovers, strategists etc).

This isn't true. You cannot please everyone, so if you set out from this point to have something for everyone, you will fail. I would recommend developing a good story and build the mod around that story, adding what is needed without worrying about having something extra just to appease the nebulous "everyone". Getting that idea out of your head will save you some headaches.

As for new stuff, I couldn't agree more. I don't even think I'll have new stuff for anything besides maybe one things per city and the main characters to make them distinct.

This is a good policy, you don't want to waste space in the data folder, especially if you do end up adding voices as voice files account for a HUGE amount of space, even blank MP3s. Don't be afraid to add some new things where needed, but don't download dozens of resources for the sake of padding your mod; I've seen guys bury themselves that way.

I think OBSE will be 100% necessary if I am to do some of the things I have planned in my head.

You may be surprised what vanilla scripting can do. My take on OBSE is don't bother unless and until you find you actually do need it. If you can make your mod independent of one more thing that's all the better for you.

Also for the level thing, players will need to be a minimum of level 20 to play to ensure that they will stand a chance.

The average OB player character is Level 10-12. Level 20 is a high mark, you will find a lot of players pass your mod over because they don't want to take the time to level a character that high, but this one's your judgment call.

Also for extremely dark type of things, I am actually planning on going nearly in the opposite direction. I hate mods like that. I really do. I might have a couple of dungeons thrown in there that are like that, but for the most part, you will be able to see your enemies and instead of your lantern being tested, your skills and preparation will be tested.

Sounds like an interesting concept as I said, I'll be watching how this develops and if I can lend any advice from my experience I'm happy to. Good Luck

[JulianSull]

You say this now, but when the time comes you may find yourself compromising. Voice acting for such a large project is rough, it can take anywhere from 3-9 months just to record, mix, and add voiced dialogue. When you've been in the trench for two years, spending another 9 months on voice acting may not seem so important then. Trust me, this is something you want to put way on the back burner and don't fuss about it until the mod is at least in BETA. In testing your testers will catch typos or say something's don't make sense and you'll find yourself rewriting, so you don't want to pass out scripts until your dialogue is finalized.

That sounds good to me =). Looking at where my script is now...I think I am going to stick that to be the last thing I focus on.

This seems excessive to be honest. Too many bosses can become redundant to players. The goal of your project is to entertain your players, not bore them with repetitive boss battles. Use bosses where the story deems one appropriate, don't just toss in loads of battling for the sake of having a lot of battles.

Well each one I made sure is important. In order they are:

1) Raptor - Introduction to the enemy city Boss

2) "The Beast" - In order to secure an ally, they player defeats this thing. Brings the player closer to the mods partener

3) The First Assassin - Designed to challenge the player in a new way and use the bridges of Selva to fight

4) The Second Assassin - Designed to show that the player and Raine (The partner) are making a big dent

5) The Hunter - This is the boss I will spend probably the most time on. It is meant to be as creepy as humanly possible.

6) Possessed Raine - This is meant for the player to instead of trying to kill the enemy, to instead try to keep alive without killing the enemy.

7) The Snake - A very mean General of the Antagonist

8) The Brute - Guards the "Sinew Spheres"

9) Beatrix Gage - Antagonist

10) The War Machine - A battle against the super weapon of the antagonist

So ten =).

This isn't true. You cannot please everyone, so if you set out from this point to have something for everyone, you will fail. I would recommend developing a good story and build the mod around that story, adding what is needed without worrying about having something extra just to appease the nebulous "everyone". Getting that idea out of your head will save you some headaches.

There isn't too too much to do to do that. All I really am saying is I want to strike a good balance between exploration, story and fighting. If one starts to dominate too much, I'll take a break from that in the story (Aka if there are a lot of battles in a row, I'll start making the story dominate and give the player a break to reset themselves.

This is a good policy, you don't want to waste space in the data folder, especially if you do end up adding voices as voice files account for a HUGE amount of space, even blank MP3s. Don't be afraid to add some new things where needed, but don't download dozens of resources for the sake of padding your mod; I've seen guys bury themselves that way.

Yeah I agree. No reason to waste time on that. If I want amazing armor, I'll search for it.

You may be surprised what vanilla scripting can do. My take on OBSE is don't bother unless and until you find you actually do need it. If you can make your mod independent of one more thing that's all the better for you.

My focus is music control. I absolutely need that. Music is such a strong tool. It needs to be in there.

The average OB player character is Level 10-12. Level 20 is a high mark, you will find a lot of players pass your mod over because they don't want to take the time to level a character that high, but this one's your judgment call.

I might lower it a bit. Or better yet I'll open the world up to players but quests that are overly difficult will be closed off. Certain bosses like the Hunter, Beatrix Gage and the Brute require not only strong tactics but good spells, equipment and preparation. Without it, the bosses become pretty hard. I'll consider making it no requirement as I build it more.

Sounds like an interesting concept as I said, I'll be watching how this develops and if I can lend any advice from my experience I'm happy to. Good Luck

Thanks =). I have a feeling that I'll need it.

[DaMage]

I've more skimmed this topic, but i read your first post.\

5 cities? Okay, I once tried a city...took me about 3 months of heaps of modding and its still not done. mainly because i just got bogged down in doing the same sort of thing over and over for it. I suggest you make 1 to begin with, then slowly build your mod out from it.

I like all your planning out, very well thought out....but rmember what takes 30secs to write down can be very hard to intergrate into a mod. I hate to tell you, but this mod will not offer you anything ot show off quickly, build a new worldspace consists of alot of behind the scenes stuff before you ever reach a stage to get some pictures.

Good luck certainly, just start in a small area and build out, dont start in many and try and build them towards each other.

[JulianSull]

I've more skimmed this topic, but i read your first post.\

5 cities? Okay, I once tried a city...took me about 3 months of heaps of modding and its still not done. mainly because i just got bogged down in doing the same sort of thing over and over for it. I suggest you make 1 to begin with, then slowly build your mod out from it.

I like all your planning out, very well thought out....but rmember what takes 30secs to write down can be very hard to intergrate into a mod. I hate to tell you, but this mod will not offer you anything ot show off quickly, build a new worldspace consists of alot of behind the scenes stuff before you ever reach a stage to get some pictures.

Good luck certainly, just start in a small area and build out, dont start in many and try and build them towards each other.

I don't plan on it being anything to show for for a while. And idk, when I was making my house mod, I just got into it and couldn't stop. I love the designing part of game design.

[The Vyper]

I don't plan on it being anything to show for for a while. And idk, when I was making my house mod, I just got into it and couldn't stop. I love the designing part of game design.

The designing part is definitely fun. My favorite part of my WIP (before I lost it to a virus ) was creating dungeon layouts. The part I liked least was putting in path grids. That part can be very tedious, but it's necessary.

[JulianSull]

The designing part is definitely fun. My favorite part of my WIP (before I lost it to a virus ) was creating dungeon layouts. The part I liked least was putting in path grids. That part can be very tedious, but it's necessary.

Pathgridding isn't too too bad. I tend to forget about it until you know...NPCs are walking into walls and jumping off cliffs and stuff like that...Then I get annoyed and I'm motivated to actually do it.

[Rowan]

Just from the names and such, this looks like a very interesting project. Best of luck.