A gun for Fallout 3?

[nottlong]

Looks like light reflection to me. I looks good to me.

[grond]

I'm the worst of the nitpickers, Glaed, but only for my own work. But if Nott says it's okay, ( and Red, of course ) then there's only one more voice I need to hear, and that's WillieSea's.

Release is coming this week. Only 6 months! My fastest mod...

[WillieSea]

Hey, the 'stupid nitpicker' is checking in...

Watched the video, saw the image, and any imperfection you 'saw' looked fine to me. Nothing more than perhaps a scratch or dent in the metal which can be expected from 200+ year old guns. Nothing stood out to me as a game stopper. Or even a game pauser for that matter.

Gun looks great Grond. I am hoping its easily retextured.

[grond]

O my, I felt sure you'd say that problem with the sight was no good. It's glaring to me. But anyway, I'll try my best to focus on the texture, I want to clean it up ( fewer scratches now! ) and I'll even throw in a copy of my horrible .psd UVmap, so you can find your way around. Maybe by the weekend. I know, my deadlines mean nothing.

I suck eggs with UV unwrapping. I'll try harder with my next project.

[WillieSea]

I use nifskope to export the UV map, so no problems there. I then layer that over the texture and transparency the background. I finally found that feature and it make making retextures so much easier.

[grond]

Ingenious! Only thing is, I tried to make a normal map, and it looked right, but it didn't make a difference in game. Is it because I didn't apply it in Blender?

[WillieSea]

The normal map on fallout meshes is part of the mesh. Its not assumed to be there like Oblivion meshes. In fact, it does not even have to be the same name or even in the same folder.

Not sure what you mean by 'it didnt make a difference in game'?

[grond]

By 'no difference' I mean that the appearance of the gun was the same with or without a normal map. I had hoped that adding a normal map would make details appear to stand out - like the bolts around the magazine. I painted some bolts onto the texture. But the normal map didn't give the texture any depth. Unless I'm wrong about what the normal map does. I think I'm way off.

So because the normal map is part of the mesh, I guess it won't make texture details stand out. Is it safe to leave out a normal map? Like I said, the gun looked the same with or without it.

[InsanitySorrow]

You are right in you assumptions of what a normal map would do, it gives the appearence of more detail and depth. I'm unsure how to attach the normal map to a model, never got that far. Is is true that it's done in the GECK Will?

[grond]

I just looked at the gun in the Geck, and was warned that it had no normal map. I remember it doing that before...and the other Jackhammer mod I DLed gives the same warning. I made one (same name + _n) but I bet I need to direct the game to it. In the Geck there are Texture sets. I'll try to set one up for the Jackhammer, see what I break.

Thanks for reminding me, IS

edit - I added the diffuse and normal maps to a texture set and did away with the 'no normal map' warning. But when I went in game to see, there was no AHA moment, there was no added depth to the details. I guess I'm expecting a big difference in detail.

If the normal map is part of the mesh, but it enhances details of the texture, shouldn't it add some deeper detail to the gun?

[WillieSea]

Yes, that is what normal maps do. Add depth detail.

Perhaps you could let me try it for you. If you look at any NIF from Fallout, the texture on the NIF has the BBShaderTextureSet contains the color texture and the normal map. It will also contain any material or environment maps among other textures like glow maps.

The texture sets can also contain all those different texture types.

If you don't create the normal map with enough detail, it can look rather flat.

[grond]

You're talking about looking at the Nif in Nifskope, aren't you. In Nifskope, my gun had nothing attached besides the diffuse map. So I went in and added the normal map. But it's probably way too flat, because the in-game gun's details haven't deepened.

If you have the time to work some magic on this gun, I'd love it. I'll get it packaged up and send it to you.

EDIT - Here it is, for your viewing pleasure. Find the gun ingame at TestQAItems, or Megaton, for the thrill of murdering the big-mouthed preacher. Please be lenient - I'm a rookie, even after all this time.

[InsanitySorrow]

I took a shot at creating a more detailed normal map.

[grond]

I looked at it Gimp and it looks much sharper, IS. I didn't notice any change in the details in game. But thanks for doing it! If you want to mess around with the texture itself ( if the map makes any sense ) go nuts.

[WillieSea]

I took a look at it too.

The gun in-game lacks details because the texture is mostly a single, flat color.

Here is what it looks like with all of your textures and normal maps grond.

http://tesalliance.org/forums/uploads/1266536605/gallery_85_19_97371.jpg

When the color texture gets some additional 'static' in the solid color, I think the gun will start looking more defined and 'rough'.

I also noticed the gun magazine textures was huge for such a small object. I reduced it down to 512x512 in my version and I also made a normal map of it for the ingame pictures.

[grond]

Wow. I thought I'd rather not have a shine, but to hell with that - it looks fantastic.

I don't remember seeing the 'inverse' parts...I'll look at it after pizza.

I totally forgot about the drum's texture! I wanted to alter the green of it and work it a little bit. Being a rookienewb to the texturing, I wonder: why do you say the texture was too big for the drum? Because of the lack of detail, the size of the mesh, or was it something else?

And did you notice that the reload animation is off? I used H because I didn't like to see a floating drum when I used the shotgun animation, and I have absolutely no idea how to edit animations. But that's okay with me - how does it sit with you, Will?

BIG THANKS!

[WillieSea]

For the drum texture, what I mean is you have a 2048x2048 texture for it. Now, to me, that is way too big for such a small part. That and there is no detail on the drum texture. ( at least yet )

I did not do anything to your textures, I only applied them to the NIF file. So if they are shiney, its the way 'you' have it set up already.

I was going to play around with the texture and see what I come up with later.

I also did not actually 'play' with the gun, I just placed the mesh in a test mod in megaton house and looked at it.

[grond]

Ok - I went on into the Geck and actually pointed the pieces of the gun to use the texture set...looks ungood. Bad! I will clean up the diffuse map and remake the normal map and we'll see. I can't wait to see your version of the shotgun, Will.

IS, your normal map is so much sharper than mine that I couldn't read the little sticker I added to the drum. Great job!

I think I've learned that even if you assign a texture to the nif in Nifskope, you need to arrange a texture set in the Geck and add it to the model in the Geck, if you're going to be using a normal map.

I also think that the normal map will add a reflectivity to the model. Without the normal map, my gun's finish looks matte but flat. With the normal map, it looks scarred but shiny.

Are those thoughts correct, Will? I think I understand it now, if that's the idea. I think fewer scratches (!) finally will prevail, or I'll edit the normal map for less contrast. The teapot with the light in the Gimp, for those who use it, is the way I'm going to try to adjust that.

[InsanitySorrow]

Do you want me to fix that?, it should not be hard to alter the area around the sticker to make it show better.

[WillieSea]

The in-game shots I made of the gun did not use a texture set. I just set the textures in the nif itself in the correct positions.

I also found some 'holes' in the model. If your interested I could point them out for you. Or they could have just been problems with nifskope. I will see if I can find them in-game.

Well, I am off to test my texture and we will see how it goes.

[grond]

Do you want me to fix that?, it should not be hard to alter the area around the sticker to make it show better.

Have you played with the gun in game, IS? Mighty mighty scratched...just like Will predicted. I think its a little too scratched up, now that the normal map is up. I want to try to tone it down. If you want to kind of reverse what you did, lessen the normal map's impact, that's what I'm going to try to do first.

The in-game shots I made of the gun did not use a texture set. I just set the textures in the nif itself in the correct positions.

It's strange, but on my first try I added the normal map in Nifskope, went into the game, and the gun looked flat.

Then for the 2nd try, after adding the normal map in Nifskope, I added the diffuse and the normal map to a texture set, set the model to use that texture set, and got the nice shiny version, like your screen.

Did you set the textures in Nifskope, Will?

I also found some 'holes' in the model. If your interested I could point them out for you. Or they could have just been problems with nifskope. I will see if I can find them in-game.

O yeah, show me the holes!

I know of rectangles along the top edge of the side vent that appear to be flipped normals or 'holes', but those were the only ones I saw...those parts circled in your screenshot above are fine in my game...they have white scratches on them is all. I want to redo this mess.

[InsanitySorrow]

Have you played with the gun in game, IS? Mighty mighty scratched...just like Will predicted. I think its a little too scratched up, now that the normal map is up. I want to try to tone it down. If you want to kind of reverse what you did, lessen the normal map's impact, that's what I'm going to try to do first.

Not yet know, have not had much chance for that. Yup the normal map will "enhance" those scratches so I can see sense in lessening it's impact. I will create a new normal map then, about half the strength sound good?

[WillieSea]

Here is my retex of the gun. Yeah, I know, lame.

I increased the light levels so you could see the detail on the gun. Its much darker in game for me.

http://tesalliance.org/forums/uploads/1266689492/gallery_85_19_13250.jpg

Anyway, I can't seem to even touch the gun in-game, so I cant 'use' it. It just floats in the air. I tried your ESP and had the same issue. Actually, the model came up as a red diamond, the dreaded missing nif. I fixed that, but still could not activate the gun. When I had dropped a 'static' version in the game, it came up with a 'fade node missing' error or something like that.

The top left image has the rectangle that is missing. Its also missing if you look into the barrel muzzel from the front, there is just a hole.

[grond]

Well, I hope this gets straightened out, after my dimwittedness! Hope that was the problem, but there's more .esm info I'll hold back until it's needed... I hope you'll be able to shoot soon you two.

I've never ever been able to see through the model, but I have always seen that rectangle - it's a 'weak' oppositely lit part of the mesh - that must mean it didn't survive the export from Blender(?).

BTW, I really believed that QUADS were the way to go in Blender. Shows to go you the triangle gets a bad rap in most blender guides, but almost every game works with triangles AFAIK.

[WillieSea]

With the new mesh, the problems I was having seem to be cleared up.

http://tesalliance.org/forums/uploads/1266689492/gallery_85_19_7681.jpg

Its a bit dark, but I like dark weapons. I could make it a bit lighter.