Which city is the most defensible...

[The Vyper]

Now keep in mind that this question is being asked from a strictly medieval standpoint (although we'll allow for the use of magic). No city can effectively defend against multiple Oblivion gates opening without warning right in the middle of town, so a Daedric invasion doesn't count here.

I say Kvatch is the most defensible. My reasons:

Note: All of these reasons are based on conventional medieval warfare (accounting for magic, of course):

1. It sits on top of a tall hill with a good view of the surrounding area. From this vantage point, any approaching army can be seen from a great distance, making a surprise attack highly unlikely, if not impossible.

2. There is only one approach. An invading force would have to ascend through a series of switchbacks that would leave them vulnerable to attacks from above. There is also only one entrance to the city, which would make it easier to defend. All other cities in Cyrodiil (minus the IC and Bravil) have at least two entrances, which means they would have to split their defenses.

3. The switchbacks are so narrow that siege engines would have to be carried up in pieces and assembled in front of the main gate. This would leave them vulnerable to attack as well.

4. The area in front of the main gate is almost completely devoid of cover. Archers and spell casters could devastate an army gathered there before they could assemble their siege engines. This is made even easier by the narrow switchbacks. Soldiers would emerge onto the field in front of the gate one, two or three at a time. Archers and spell casters could eliminate them rather quickly. And let's not forget about the havoc that a well aimed Frenzy spell would unleash on the enemy ranks.

5. The height at witch the city stands makes it very visible for a great distance in any direction. Any siege would be noticed fairly quickly and aid could be sent before the walls could be breached. True, catapults and trebuchets could launch attacks from the base of the hill, but catapults don't have the range to cause much damage from down there. Trebuchet crews wouldn't be able to range their shots without someone shouting back the results from the top of the hill (and such a person would be eliminated very quickly, either by the defenders or a bad shot from a trebuchet).

6. While the walls are being defended, fortifications can be erected in the courtyard in case the gate is breached. These could be set up to force the invaders into narrow channels where only one or two can pass at a time. The archers and spell casters lining the walls could then rain death and destruction (and more Frenzy spells) down on the heads and backs of any enemies that enter while more defenders engage them from the front. If help arrives before (or even right after) the gate is breached, the invaders will be sandwiched between enemies and crushed (or forced to surrender).

No other city has a defensive setup like this.

Skingrad is in a very bad position. True, the Count is a very powerful vampire, but what's he going to do during the day? Stay indoors to avoid being harmed by the sun? Yeah, that's helpful. And an invader could place catapults and trebuchets on the hill that overlooks Skingrad and blast away non stop until there's nothing left. Any soldiers sent out to attack the siege engines could be easily dispatched by a few well positioned marksman and spell casters. Spell casters could also fire wide area Frenzy spells into the town from that hill so the soldiers would be too busy fighting each other (and the very citizens they're supposed to protect) to even attempt a counterattack. Sure, Skingrad has a bunch of mages skilled in Destruction, but what happens to them when the invaders have their own mages start casting those Frenzy spells? They go after each other, the other citizens and the soldiers. What happens to them when the invaders have their own mages start casting wide are Silence spells? They become about as useful as food to a skeleton.

The Imperial City has a sewer system beneath it that could house an entire enemy army, which could enter through the three sewer gates that lead to Lake Rumare. If they attack at night, huge groups could exit the sewers in every district, quickly eliminate the guards and then attack the Palace District from every direction.

Bruma has a "back door" entrance in Jearle's house. Attacks could be staged on the main gates to draw the attention of defenders, while a small strike force enters the city through Jearle's house. This commando force could bypass the defenders, enter the castle and capture Countess Narina Carvain, thus ending the battle fairly quickly.

Anvil could be captured fairly easily, just by taking the castle. The castle is separate from the town, has no visible means of blocking entrance from the main gate and has a secret passage that leads right into the inner chambers from the coast. True, it's a secret passage, but it could be easily discovered, especially since the cave it's in would be a good camp for the invading force to hide in.

Chorrol could be taken fairly quickly. Have a few soldiers (dressed as travelers/hunters/rangers) enter through the north gate at night (say around 2:00AM), quickly eliminate the guards, climb the guard tower and get on top of the city wall. They could the circle around to the spot above the Grey Mare and eliminate the guards at the south gate, after which a huge force could enter unopposed. There is a lot of cover in the area surrounding the city for an invading force to hide in.

Cheydinhal could be taken with even greater ease. Have some disguised soldier enter the east gate and eliminate the guards. A large force could then stick to the edge of the east wall and make it's way up to the castle while one or two of the disguised soldiers walks up the main path and eliminates the guard after striking up a conversation to put him at ease. Once that is done, taking the castle would be fairly simple. It would be even easier if the invaders captured Farwil at the Knights of the Thorn Lodge. they could just demand that his doting father, the Count, surrender. He very likely would.

Leyawiin would be one of the easiest to take, since most of it's citizens are Argonian and Khajiit and could be turned against the racist Countess. They could be used to eliminate or incapacitate the guards and then let an invading force in.

Bravil would be harder to take than any city except for Kvatch. It has only one entrance, and that is a rope bridge that could be cut to prevent access. Of course, one fireball launched into the city could start a fire that would burn it all down. But who would even want to take Bravil to begin with? (Actually, that very lack of desire might make Bravil the most defensible. How ironic.)

[Yevic]

I'm going to say Chorrol.

The main gate has a second gate, albeit without a door, but it gives something to defend.

The gates look heavy, and solid.

Plus it's surrounded by massive walls, with the castle itself being seperate from the main walls.

You seem to think that two or three enemy soldiers would be able to take out the entire guard....I'm not sure how they'd do that

I mean, theres always about two guards at each gates, if one gets killed the other ones not alerted and said soldier wouldn't have the element of suprise on the second soldier, and the guard would probobally be yelling for help.

[The Vyper]

You seem to think that two or three enemy soldiers would be able to take out the entire guard....I'm not sure how they'd do that

Here's a layout of Chorrol:

An assault could go something like this:

2:00AM. Most of the city is asleep. Six "hunters" enter the city through the north gate after a "long, tiring journey". They ask the two guards about lodging for the rest of the night. When they get close, they attack the guards with daggers coated in poison that damages their health and paralyzes them, thus preventing them from calling for help or shouting in alarm. With the guards finished off shortly thereafter, four of them climb the tower at point 1 on the map and get on top of the wall while the other two don the uniforms of the fallen guards. The four on the wall then stealthily make their way around it starting east. They get to the small curve between the Grey Mare at point 32 and tower at point 33. From there, they fire arrows coated in the same poison as their daggers at the guards posted near the castle (close to point 9). They then drop to ground level and make their way up to the fallen guards and take their uniforms. While this is going on, the two (now disguised) invaders make their way south from the north gate and meet up with the two newly disguised invaders near Fire and Steel (point 16). The four disguised invaders then make their way towards the south gate. It's still dark, so the guards can't see their faces until they get close, at which point the invaders attack the guards with those poisoned daggers and acquire two more uniforms. Now four of the six disguised invaders can slip out of the south gate and eliminate the guard(s) there while the other two eliminate the one on patrol in the city. With all on duty guards in the city eliminated without an alarm being sounded, one or two dozen more invaders can enter the city and take the castle.

I've actually eliminated all the guards in Chorrol in a manner very similar to this all by myself, so it's not impossible for a well organized group.

[the-manta]

2:00AM. Most of the city is asleep. Six "hunters" enter the city through the north gate after a "long, tiring journey". They ask the two guards about lodging for the rest of the night. When they get close, they attack the guards with daggers coated in poison that damages their health and paralyzes them, thus preventing them from calling for help or shouting in alarm. With the guards finished off shortly thereafter, four of them climb the tower at point 1 on the map and get on top of the wall while the other two don the uniforms of the fallen guards. The four on the wall then stealthily make their way around it starting east. They get to the small curve between the Grey Mare at point 32 and tower at point 33. From there, they fire arrows coated in the same poison as their daggers at the guards posted near the castle (close to point 9). They then drop to ground level and make their way up to the fallen guards and take their uniforms. While this is going on, the two (now disguised) invaders make their way south from the north gate and meet up with the two newly disguised invaders near Fire and Steel (point 16). The four disguised invaders then make their way towards the south gate. It's still dark, so the guards can't see their faces until they get close, at which point the invaders attack the guards with those poisoned daggers and acquire two more uniforms. Now four of the six disguised invaders can slip out of the south gate and eliminate the guard(s) there while the other two eliminate the one on patrol in the city. With all on duty guards in the city eliminated without an alarm being sounded, one or two dozen more invaders can enter the city and take the castle.

That's a fair point, but if you take assassins into it, all of the cities are probably just as easily taken. Kvatch may be very well defended from an attacking army for all the reasons you listed, but it would be no less susceptible to the above plan than Chorrol. Admittedly, getting the one or two dozen soldiers in would be a bit harder, but with no trained soldiers left to fight them off, that doesn't really matter Against a conventional assault I'd say Chorrol was in the upper half for defensibility. I agree with you on Kvatch and Bravil being the highest though, but I think that realistically, getting an army into the IC through the sewers would be actually very tricky. The IC never really sleeps; there are citizens and soldiers all over the place at all times, and if the attackerss had to come up through manholes one by one they could be easily dispatched by about three guards on each manhole. I do think that the fact that the Imperial Palace can be accessed from any direction is an awful idea though (but very handy for the player ). What you have to remember is that everything in Oblivion is scaled down to make it work for a game; all the cities would be much larger and much more full really. I still voted for Kvatch though.

[Galvon]

I'm going to say Bruma because of the tiered layout to the city, highly defend-able when the sides of the tiers are barricaded and you funnel your enemy to the one entrance to the castle, pikemen could harrass and demoralize troops making it very effective. The back door in the house is a problem but how would the attacking army know about this secret entrance? The basement is linked to a cavern used by

the Mythic Dawn

and I dont think they would let a commando force tramp through their. Once you get inside the actual castle you have the opening room which could be held at the small doorway with a group of pikemen which can bottle neck the enemy forces most effectively, when you get to the throne room the balcony could be lined with archers to pin the doorway down.

So their is my idea of the most defensible city

[WhoGuru]

I'll weigh in with Kvatch for all the reasons listed above. Highly defensible city however it does have a weakness for a lengthy seige. Being situated up on that plateau, the city defenders and citizens will have only whatever food and water is already inside the city when the siege starts. There'd be little chance of foraging for anything outside the city at night, lulls in attacks, etc...

That's a big weakness. A prolonged siege could conceivably starve the city out into a surrender. I'm not counting water as, with the way it rains up there rain collection for drinkable water wouldn't be much of an issue.

[Dane]

None of them because:

Bruma: Cold and backdoors, that and the doors seem weak and the mountains could provide a trebuchet with easy ways of destroying the city from above

Skingrad: The last holding place would be the castle: Destroy the bridge -> Win the city

Kvatch: there is a reason it fell for the Daedra, and if they take up the walkways the only way is digging out of the city

IC: a total of 6 entrances and the sewers could be exploited

Anvil: Close to the sea could cause a blockade of supplies, if combined with a land assault

Leyawiin: 2 entrance ways, already flooded, the castle is really close to a gate

Chorrol: Siege the city, finish up the digging in the nearby cave

Bravil: Diseases would spread really quickly during a prolonged siege

Cheydenhal: the counts son and the gangs could make a diplomatic way of gaining the city

Edited October 16, 2010 by Dane

[WhoGuru]

Kvatch: there is a reason it fell for the Daedra, and if they take up the walkways the only way is digging out of the city

read the first post. We're not counting a Deadric invasion. Any city would fall to that. We're talking an actual, mundane seige here. Kvatch fell to the Deadra because they opened gates inside the city itself, bypassing the walls. Any other reason, in the context of this discussion, why you think Kvatch would or would not fall to something other than an invasion of Oblivion gates?

[Arthmoor]

My vote goes with Kvatch as well, for the reasons outlined in the OP. Solid analysis.

I also agree Bravil would be second easiest to defend because both parts are on islands making a land assault extremely difficult once the main bridge is cut. A naval assault changes things drastically though because the castle has its back to Niben Bay.

Anvil comes next, because it would require a combined land+sea invasion to subdue it, and that's not easy to do without getting caught - but it has serious elevation vulnerabilities as well.

My general opinion though is that none of the walls are especially useful for defense and were put there for game mechanics reasons - pacification of poor performance on the XBox. Otherwise I wager we'd have Kvatch still walled up, but the others would be open like they were in Morrowind.

[WhoGuru]

I think Anvil would actually have a decent chance of fighting off a siege by sea. Wouldn't be too difficult to bottleneck the harbor with canon. Anything trying to come through would be toothpicks and the lighthouse and nearby cliffs would make good vantage points to spot the enemy and warn the city. Not to mention food would be of little worry with the harbor to fish from. Potable water could become a problem and run off from the city, with so many people trapped inside for an extended period would no doubt begin to pollute the harbor after a while.

[DaMage]

Lorewise Kvatch is the most heavily defended city. Thats the reason it is such a blow to the people that Kvatch falls to the daedra, because if Kvatch can be easily destoryed what chance does the other cities have.

Kvatch gets my vote.

[bg2408]

Gameplay and story segregation rears its ugly head here. In game Kvatch is the most defensible city, but simply because it is the least developed city.

Lore wise it's the Imperial City. Cyrod is huge, has it's own food- and water supplies, is heavily fortified with multiple layers of walls and watchposts all around the island - which also can't be underestimated, because any army trying to capture the city has to use the bridge.

[WhoGuru]

Gameplay and story segregation rears its ugly head here. In game Kvatch is the most defensible city, but simply because it is the least developed city.

Lore wise it's the Imperial City. Cyrod is huge, has it's own food- and water supplies, is heavily fortified with multiple layers of walls and watchposts all around the island - which also can't be underestimated, because any army trying to capture the city has to use the bridge.

The IC is very defensible but has its own set of weaknesses. For instance, it wouldn't be difficult for an army to row forces over Lake Rumare to the Imperial Isle itself at which point, the Waterfront, Arcane University and Imperial Prison become weaknesses, offering multiple points of entry into the city itself.

Not saying it would be easy at all. Once inside the city the defenders would have all the advantage both of height, being able to reign arrows down from the walls and the streets themselves would wreak havoc with any invading force as the defenders will no doubt know them better and be able to funnel the invaders where they want them to do the most damage.

[Arthmoor]

The IC might do well in a strictly frontal assault, but being on an island they're vulnerable to siege from the other side of the lake. Although that would require a pretty big army, and you'd have to have gotten through to the center of Cyrodiil before that's even possible, so chances are if the IC is under siege the rest of the province has already fallen.

[WhoGuru]

If I were an invading army looking to score points on the heart of the Empire, I'd make my move after the Oblivion crisis was over. Every city would have been weakened, loss of manpower, etc...

[washington]

About the siege of Lake Rumare, keep in mind that the Imperial isle is actually supposed to be huge so even if blocked away from mainland it could maintain itself and I think that greatest harm would be decline of trade and lack of luxury imported goods.

I agree about Kvatch, definitely the best. Bravil also. But I think that Skingrad is in way better position than that stated in OP. It is well walled and has ridiculously high number of towers. Also, it's the only town with two 'armies'. And it's castle is at strategic position.

And one more comment on somebody entering town at 2 AM... That's possible in game, but it would be highly unlikely in more realistic environment because city gates are there to be closed at night. Dusk 'till dawn, !

[onra]

I think the outer walls of the cities could not be defended by the local forces anyway...

like in medieval times most of city walls were built to make the city safe against bandits, thieves wild creatures etc

some bigger cities like for example Cologne in Germany even had an outer wall around the surrounding farmlands...gates were used as checkpoints where for example people had to pay if they wanted to visit the town on market days etc...a lot of towns were protected by a seperate castle or stronghold, often located on a better strategic point than the city itself ...in the event of an attack people could flee into the castle...these castles or strongholds could be defended by a lot less man then the entire city walls....I would imagine it the same way for Cyrodiil....most of the castles are exactly build this way..on hills, rocks or islands...easy to defend for a handful of guards :-)..whilst the outer walls protect the cities against thieves, bandits and wild creatures....

imagine a large army attacking..lets say Skingrad...you would need hundreds of men to defend all the walls properly...so I think people would flee up to the castle...which is in this case located high on a rock..having just one gate..and a very long bridge in front of it ...

[ub3rman123]

Imperial City. It's able to be sectioned off, allowing the defenders to trap attackers inside one area while they flee to the next wall down. Also, the problem with sewer entrances could be fixed by just setting something heavy down on top of the manholes in basements. YOu know how hard it is to climb a ladder in full kit? Even worse trying to push a block off the top of a trapdoor. However, the sewers could be used in the archaic manner: Dig out the sewers until they're structurally weakened and no longer support the weight above them, and hold them up with temporary wooden beams. Then leave the sewers, burn the beams, and stroll right over that toppled wall.

Also, while the lake is a hindrance to any land army, the waters also would allow offshore bombardment, allowing for an even longer siege than that of a land-going army.

[vometia]

My inclination has always been toward Skingrad: the addition of extra gates (or portcullis or whatever) from the enclosed roadway to the north and south halves would have a hindering effect on invading forces who could be conveniently sniped at from the bridges and battlements, which would make any invaders distinctly uncomfortable when trying to breach the inner defences. The point about the castle being outside the city walls is well made, although the bridge is so high and substantial enough to probably withstand even quite serious undermining attempts that it might not make a lot of difference; still gives pause for thought, though. Same goes for the point about the sheer length of perimeter wall that needs to be defended: I'm assuming no serious scaling or breaching abilities by invaders who'd instead have to go through the gates, otherwise it could be a headache to defend.

But for largely infantry-based forces without the means to deal with the walls or the bridge, the city has always struck me as being a real "murder zone" for invading forces due to its layout. Of course it's a fine balance, and if those bridges become compromised then you've just split the city in two and that advantage becomes a liability if events run out of control. But I still rather like the layout nonetheless.

In more realistic terms I'd guess Bruma, what with its huge keep with limited access fronted by a series of walled terraces, which make for an excellent defensive position with multiple possibilities for falling back if things get nasty. But I still prefer Skingrad for its interestingness.

[Nic-V]

I'd have to say Kvatch, which is what makes it so scary that it fell so easily. I am sure that is why they chose it too. (And so they didn't have to make another arena )

Kvatch was basically a fortress with huge walls and castle like buildings. It was even on a hill, known to be one of the best defensible spots apart from cities in mountains and sorrounded by lakes.

In other words: The Daedra are unstoppable!

[washington]

Daedra cheated, they COC-ed right into the city!

[WhoGuru]

Daedra cheated, they COC-ed right into the city!

Best answer yet!

[TheUnknownChemist]

I think SKingrad would stand a fair chance of surviving an assault, although not the best land layout outside it would still be able to pelt arrows at the invading force untill they breached the gates.

Now the main two gates at east and west lead into a perfect gully, if all the access points from the gully where sealed then you have a kill box, the north eastern gate could be baricaded to a point and would inevitably be a weak point for the defenders.

Also I do believe that skingrad has more archer towers surrounding and inside the city than any other city in the game. as long as they have the man power to garrison them.

Just a thought but if any one here plays medieval 2 total war. then could maps of the oblivion cities be made for it. Be a good way of putting the idea into reality in a sense.

[bradleyh]

I will have to go with Kvatch, for the same reasons everyone else has stated. The fact that Kvatch is on a plateau that could be easily defended gives the city an alternate way of providing food. The Imperial City itself would be the second easiest, but is vulnerable to disease. The sewer exits would have to be sealed to defend it properly. If Lake Rumare is just a large Lagoon with brackish water, a siege could end very quickly in favor of the attacking army. Bravil has the same weakness as the IC, and a criminal element that could be easily bribed. Bruma is easy to isolate and starve. The other cities are vulnerable because of bad location. Skingrad,Chorrol, and Anvil have too much high ground that could be used by an invading army.

[jaggedbubbles]

I think Bruma's weather would be a large deterrent as well. It's in the north in the mountains. Doesn't make it the easiest to get to with a larger army.